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Scientists: Atheists May Not Exist—Seriously

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For some, “God doesn’t believe in atheists” is just a clever (nor not-so-clever) jab directed against the faithless in our culture. But based on the findings of secular researchers, the statement may not be so far from reality.

That is because multidisciplinary research is increasingly backing the idea that human beings are hard-wired to believe in God, according to Science 2.0 writer Nury Vittachi in an article titled, “Scientists discover that atheists might not exist, and that’s not a joke.”

“[A]theism is psychologically impossible because of the way humans think,” Vittachi cites avowed atheist Graham Lawton as writing in New Scientist. “They point to studies showing, for example, that even people who claim to be committed atheists tacitly hold religious beliefs, such as the existence of an immortal soul.”

Even atheists hold to several tacitly religious concepts, including the existence of an immortal soul, according to Lawton. The article also cites another atheist researcher who demonstrated that all people engage in internal monologue, regardless of whether the person to whom their thoughts are directed is actually present.

Equally demonstrable is the intrinsic human tendency to believe in divine justice. Vittachi describes both religious and non-religious persons as possessing the innate sense that “If I commit a sin, it is not an isolated event but will have appropriate repercussions.” This sense of cosmic justice is credited for the popular belief in “karma.”

This idea, he writes, is played out on a number of differently levels—including narrative literature, where even atheist authors invariably write stories that “exist to establish that there exists a mechanism or a person—cosmic destiny, karma, God, fate, Mother Nature—to make sure the right thing happens to the right person.”

Even the staunchest nontheists are not exempted from such habits, according to the writer. “If a loved one dies, even many anti-religious people usually feel a need for a farewell ritual, complete with readings from old books and intoned declarations that are not unlike prayers,” Vittachi writes. “In war situations, commanders frequently comment that atheist soldiers pray far more than they think they do.”

According to the writer, atheists tend to exhibit the same sociological, psychological dependence on the intangible as religious folk do, even if the former reject the existence of anything supernatural. “Statistics show that the majority of people who stop being part of organized religious groups don’t become committed atheists, but retain a mental model in which ‘The Universe’ somehow has a purpose for humanity,” says Vittachi.

While Vittachi attempts to connect all these theistic proclivities to an evolutionary source, missing one key bit of evidence: it is the biblical Christian worldview, not the secular humanist worldview, which accurately predicts a human bent towards belief in God.

In Romans 1:18-23, the apostle Paul writes that “what can be known about God is plain to them”—that is, all men—and that “his invisible attributes, namely, his eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly perceived, ever since the creation of the world, in the things that have been made. So they are without excuse.” He then goes so far as to state that all such people “knew God” (v. 21). The implication, thus, is that man innately assumes the existence of his Creator until he convinces himself to think otherwise.

This biblical teaching is not unique to Paul. Proverbs 9:10 says, “The fear of the LORD is the beginning of wisdom, and knowledge of the Holy One is understanding,” echoing the same sentiment of other Old Testament passages. In essence, one cannot truly possess wisdom and knowledge if one denies the essential fact of existence: that the transcendent God is the ultimate measure of reality.

While Vittachi may be a few steps short of walking down the aisle at the next altar call, the findings he describes lead to one critical conclusion: perhaps it is atheists, not God, who truly do not exist.

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  • Ray – Jesus is the Son of God.

    A revealing Creation Seminar from a scientific perspective

    Dr. Kent Hovind is considered by many to be one of the foremost authorities on science and the Bible. His amazing ability to communicate complicated scientific concepts in an easy-to-understand formant makes this essential information accessible to lay people, as well as the science professor. His fully-illustrated slides and humor make assimilating knowledge exciting, enjoyable, and even entertaining! This 17-hour series is a “must-have” for anyone studying the vital subject of Creation.

    Age of the Earth – uncovers the follies of the Big Bang theory as well as exposing the religious beliefs of evolution.

    The Garden of Eden – describes the earth as it was before the worldwide flood, and how it was possible for man to live over 900 years, for plants and animals to grow much larger than today, and for dinosaurs to thrive along with man.

    Dinosaurs and the Bible – traces the Biblical and historical references to dinosaurs with interviews of people who claim to have seen living dinosaurs.

    Lies in the Textbooks – shows how public school textbooks are permeated with fraudulent information in order to convince students that evolution is true.

    The Dangers of Evolution – reveals the terrible effects that evolutionary beliefs have had on societies throughout history.

    The Hovind Theory – blends scientific observations with Scripture in a fascinating explanation of what could have caused Noah’s Flood, the Ice Age, and the formation of coal, mountain ranges, and the Grand Canyon.

    Questions and Answers – covers a wide variety of topics including radiometric dating, starlight, “primitive man,” race origins, the mark of the beast, alleged contradictions in the Bible, and many more!
    http://www.chick.com/catalog/videos/4008.asp

    • QuestionsEverything

      “Dr.” Kent Hovind is a fraud and a criminal. Anyone calling themselves “Doctor” after receiving 2 doctorate degrees via correspondence from an unaccredited university should never be trusted.

      • Ray – Jesus is the Son of God.

        Evolution’s Big Lie Looking More Absurd
        http://www.chick.com/bc/2007/biglie.asp

        • QuestionsEverything

          Did you have a point to make, or do you get paid by the amount of Chick Tracts that get read?

          • Ray – Jesus is the Son of God.

            EXPELLED: NO INTELLIGENCE ALLOWED by Ben Stein. This fascinating documentary exposes the gross discrimination of the evolutionary community (in the fields of scientific research, education, journalism, etc.) toward anyone that proposes that the world is the product of an intelligent designer. The latter are blacklisted, shunned, and ridiculed. The documentary ends with an amazing interview with the Oxford atheist Richard Dawkins, who shares his suspicion that this world might have been seeded by aliens from outer space.
            http://www.wayoflife.org/database/creation_science_videos.html

          • Ray – Jesus is the Son of God.

            The Bible is true in every detail and is the only religious book in the world that gives us a scientifically accurate description of what happened in the very first days of earth’s existence. The book of Genesis is not contradicted by science but rather gives us insight into where we came from and where we are going.

            The Bible, which consists of 66 books, was written over a period of 1,600 years by 40 different authors, but it speaks with one voice and has one main message, and that is the message of redemption from sin through Jesus Christ. The Old Testament portion of the Bible, consisting of its first 39 books, points to the coming of Jesus and prepares the way for His coming through types and prophecies. The New Testament portion of the Bible, consisting of its final 27 books, describes how that Jesus, the eternal Son of God, the Creator, came into this world through the womb of a virgin, lived a sinless life, and suffered and died on the cross to redeem man from his fallen condition. Jesus died, was buried, and rose from the dead the third day. He then instructed His followers to go into all the world and preach the gospel of redemption. Those who believe are forgiven of their sin, are brought back into relationship with God, and are given eternal life. The main theme of the Bible is stated in a nutshell in John 3:16:
            http://www.wayoflife.org/database/creation_museum.html

      • Ray – Jesus is the Son of God.

        Evolutionists Are In A Panic Mode’
        http://www.chick.com/bc/2005/evolution.asp

      • Ray – Jesus is the Son of God.

        Evolution’s ‘Proofs’ Rapidly Vanishing
        http://www.chick.com/bc/2005/vanishingproofs.asp

      • Ray – Jesus is the Son of God.

        Little Bugs That Evolutionists Would Like To Forget
        http://www.chick.com/bc/1994/beetle.asp

        • Rob T

          You poor guy. Do you ever check whether anything you’re telling us is true? For this one, try googling: bombardier beetle evolution explained

      • vorpal

        Indeed. I read Hovind’s “thesis” and it compares in quality to a book report written by a grade four student. It is clearly the product of a diploma mill that would be rejected by even any high school student, much less a university professor engaging in peer review.

  • Ray – Jesus is the Son of God.

    Are your children being taught scientific “proofs” of evolution that have already been disproven?

    Much of the world has been convinced to abandon God because of a few classic “proofs of evolution” in schoolbooks. “The Vanishing Proofs of Evolution” shows how one after another, these “proofs” have been found to be untrue. Don’t just stand and watch while your kids and their teachers are being deceived. Give them the knowledge that will build their faith and help them help others. It’s all explained in this scientifically-sound book, which clearly shows that true science supports the Creation position and disproves evolution.
    http://www.chick.com/catalog/books/1250.asp

    • Bolvon72

      Thomas Heinze has a Bachelor’s Degree from Oregon State University and a Masters in Theology from Dallas Theological Seminary.

      I think I will stick with the scientists on this one.

      • helligusvart

        So these institutions of higher learning just don’t make the cut, huh?

        • Bolvon72

          Lets just say I take a scientist’s findings over a theologian.

          • helligusvart

            I take God’s findings over everyone else’s.

          • Bolvon72

            He’s been quiet far to long to be relevant.

          • helligusvart

            Fool.

          • Bolvon72

            Matthew 5:22. See you there.

  • Ray – Jesus is the Son of God.

    So…where DID life begin?

    Why should we be surprised when kids turn violent and shoot their teachers and fellow students when they are taught that their creator was primordial soup? That false teaching steals their purpose in life and the basis for their moral standards. It also blinds them to the salvation God offers in Christ Jesus. Now you can do something about it! In the Beginning…Soup?provides documented scientific evidence that it was God, and not soup that created life. It then goes on to explain how to know God personally through Jesus Christ the Savior. At under fifty cents a copy its easy to give to teachers, students, and all who need it.
    Though secular science books teach that a first living cell evolved from chemicals, the idea is not science, but an opinion about ancient history. For it to be true, the ingredients cells are made of would have to be capable of forming under natural conditions. But God made cells of materials that will never form anywhere in nature except in already living cells. DNA, RNA, and proteins won¹t form outside of already living cells, they all break down. If one of them had been able to form spontaneously as many secular biology books lead students to believe, it would have broken down while waiting for the others.

    This booklet is the distilled essence of the much more complete book, How Life Began. The first teacher of a Christian high school to read How Life Began came back and bought 40 more copies, 30 of them for his graduating seniors! A few copies ofHow Life Began will give the teacher and the most interested students a great deal of in depth scientific evidence and background. In the Beginning … Soup? will then fascinate rest of the class with some of the most impressive evidence fromHow Life Began for only $0.49 per booklet.
    http://www.chick.com/catalog/books/1016.asp

    • Rob T

      Science says you are made of stardust. Genesis says you were made from dirt.

      Science is a bit more inspiring, I think.

      • Russell Sayce

        Nope…..Genesis says “dust”…

        By the sweat of your brow you will eat your food until you return to the ground, since from it you were taken; for dust you are and to dust you will return.”

        • Rob T

          I could adjust my statement to say “Science says you are made of stardust. Genesis says you were made from the ‘dust of the ground.'” But of course, the “dust of the ground” is…dirt.

          But it doesn’t much matter. Stardust is more inspiring than either.

          • Russell Sayce

            Since Genesis is verifiable with our own eyes, I would say that your inspiration comes from having your head in the stars….

          • QuestionsEverything

            What exactly in Genesis is verifiable with our own eyes?

          • Russell Sayce

            That we return to the Earth, not the stars….

          • Rob T

            The issue under discussion is not where our bodies go, but where they came from. But for what it’s worth, both science and Genesis agree that bodies decompose, so Genesis has no advantage there. In fact, science does a much better job of describing what happens, so if anything, the advantage goes to science.

            It must be frustrating when your own argument suddenly turns against you.

          • Russell Sayce

            I’m sure you can describe that frustration well, people like you have had 2000 years to come up with something that proves the Bible to be in error. Now your argument has come down to, man’s explanation is more inspiring? Not for me it isn’t, I prefer something with a few less lies attached to it. But you go ahead, enjoy the thought that tyrannical misfits own you, maybe if you’re real nice to them, they’ll let you exist in one of their many cages.

          • Rob T

            Holy cow — you think the Bible has never been shown to be in error? You are genuinely kidding yourself. You’re also kidding yourself if you think that last sentence makes any sense.

          • Russell Sayce

            It is you that fools yourself, and there’s no turning back now, good luck !!!

          • helligusvart

            The Bible has never been shown to be in error, ’cause it isn’t.

          • Rob T

            You tell yourself that. Then you can investigate archaeological evidence for Moses wandering for 40 years and then get back to me.

            Also, curious about how you’ll explain the existence of citrus trees prior to the sun.

          • helligusvart

            We don’t need archaeological evidence for anything. The Bible says Moses wandered for 40 years so therefore it is true. As far as “citrus trees” are concerned, I don’t know how God made them before making the sun. But I believe He did because He said so, whether I understand it or not.

          • Rob T

            Hilarious.

          • vorpal

            > “enjoy the thought that tyrannical misfits own you, maybe if you’re real nice to them, they’ll let you exist in one of their many cages.”

            Yes, I am (unverifiably, of course, due to quantum barriers) Stephen Hawking’s Schrodinger’s cat.

          • Russell Sayce

            I guess we’ll find out when we open the box…??

          • vorpal

            I wait with bated (or no) breath. You’ll just have to find out for yourself and collapse the probability function.

          • Russell Sayce

            I’d rather open the box, and let the kitty out…..

          • vorpal

            Well, hurry up, then. I’m tired of having my quantum state entangled with this creepy radioactive cesium already. You think I like living my life as:
            |life> = (|00> + |11>)/sqrt(2)
            ?

          • tomd

            Ahh – were you there?

          • Russell Sayce

            Was I where?

          • tomd

            At creation. You said it was verifiable with your own eyes.

          • Russell Sayce

            Returning to dust of the Earth is verifiable, your question leaves me scratching my head…..

          • helligusvart

            Were you?

          • tomd

            Don’t need to be. We have evidence.

          • helligusvart

            Yeah. It’s called THE BIBLE.

          • Rob T

            Actually, the creation of elements in stars is observable, as are supernovae, as is the formation of suns and stars from clouds of stellar dust. All that can be and has been observed.

            Genesis? Not so much.

          • Truth Offends

            The creation of life from non-life elements is not observable.

          • Russell Sayce

            Sorry you won’t be part of the Genesis crowd, I’m sure you will have an inspiring future too, best of luck to you : )

          • QuadGMoto

            Last time I checked, cosmologists say that elements heavier than hydrogen are produced by stars. And those elements are what make up the planets, including “dirt”.

            So yes, star dust.

            Added: Being formed by God himself is even more inspiring than “star dust”.

          • Rob T

            That’s good. You’ve got me. :)

            Except maybe not. If you only read Genesis, you wouldn’t know that dirt is stardust. You’d be left thinking you came from regular dirt. You wouldn’t know it came from the stars.

          • Russell Sayce

            Your argument is definately not getting stronger….

            It looks like you would withhold your own knowledge to further an argument that you yourself don’t believe….Sup satan ?

          • Rob T

            Sup satan ?

            That made me laugh. Sometimes you sink into hilarity, and it’s quite entertaining.

          • Russell Sayce

            It’s one of my goals : )

          • Rob T

            :)

          • MidwestMother

            I am not understanding the relevance of that post. 1) Are you inferring Christians only read Scripture and nothing else? 2) It only takes reading the first 10 verses of the Bible to understand that the “dirt” was created from what was initially the heavens.

          • helligusvart

            Stardust? Now we know what YOUR head is filled with.

          • Rob T

            Really? You didn’t know about the role of stars in creating and distributing elements throughout the galaxy? How proud you are of your ignorance.

      • Ray – Jesus is the Son of God.

        John 8:44
        Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do.
        He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth,
        because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh
        of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.

        • Rob T

          You’re so cute.

          • helligusvart

            Sorry, pal, Ray is straight.

          • vorpal

            He is, isn’t he? Don’t you just want to have him bronzed, installed with a drawstring to make him speak, and put on a shelf so that you can break him out at parties for entertainment?

    • QuestionsEverything

      a) School shootings have existed long before the 20th century, and also occur in private, religious schools where I am sure Evolution is not taught.

      b) Morality is not based on religious beliefs; if you can’t discern right from wrong then you lack empathy, not religion.

      • Ray – Jesus is the Son of God.

        There is only one road to heaven, all other roads lead to hell.

        http://www.chick.com/the_story

        • QuestionsEverything

          There is also only one road to Mount Doom, so what?

          • Russell Sayce

            Does it have nice views, with lots of holiday rest stops along the way?

          • Ray – Jesus is the Son of God.

            You really are a stupid person.

          • QuestionsEverything

            Ah, ad hominem attacks. The act of a desperate person.

          • Bolvon72

            Skip him, he works for another website.

  • mykelb

    When you want to find out the probability of an event happening, you divide the event by the total of all events. An example of this is the probability of rolling a 1 on a six-sided die, which would be 1 (the event you want) divided by 6 (all possible events). So when you want to know the probability that god exists, you divide the one you choose by all possible other events. Since you have no proof that indicates any one god is more likely than any other god, this gives you an infinite number of possible events. So doing the probability you get 1 divided by infinity which is ZERO.

    • helligusvart

      Hogwash.

    • rpm

      @Mykelb: There were 61 major prophecies in the old testament that were
      fulfilled in the one person, Jesus Christ. If we just take 8 of the
      prophecies; 1: Born in Bethlehem; 2: Preceded by messenger (John the
      Baptist); 3: Entered Jerusalem on a donkey, Zech. 9:9, on the exact day,
      Dan. 9: 25-26, Neh. chapter 2 ; 4: Betrayed by a friend (Judas
      Iscariot) 5: Hand and feet pierced and Crucified with Thieves 6:
      Betrayed for 30 pieces of silver. 7: Money thrown in God’s house and
      given for Potter’s field. 8: Silent before his accusers.

      For just
      these 8 prophecies to be fulfilled in one person (Jesus Christ) the
      odds would be 1 in 10 to the 17th power (1 in 100,000,000,000,000,000).
      That would be like taking this amount of silver dollars (marking only
      one) and lay them on the face of Texas, which would cover the entire
      state, two feet deep. Then blindfold a person and tell them they have
      ONE chance to find the marked silver dollar.

      That is proof that God inspired the writings of the prophecies.

      • Kevin Wright

        It’s not a prophecy if the same book contains the prophecy as well as the only testament to their being fulfilled. That’s called foreshadowing. If there was a great earthquake, or jewish zombies wandering through a heavily populated city with people who can write living in it, like in Luke, there’d be a lot of evidence, and a lot fewer skeptics.

        • Luke Newport

          What you fail to realise is that the Old Testament Scriptures were written 400-1600 thousand years before the coming of Christ. The Bible was written by 40 different authors over a 1600 year life span. The OT prophecies concerning Christ are plausible because we see their fulfillment in the historical documents of the four gospels. These documentations are eye-witnessing accounts of Christs life, death and resurrection. Backed up by numerous historical manuscripts to clarify its plausibility. To dismiss the prophetic fulfillment as foreshadowing without a proper understanding of Biblical authorship is absurd.

          • Kevin Wright

            While archeology has proved there was no mass exodus, evolution proves there was no Adam or Eve (or original sin), and geology proves there was no flood, please forgive me for taking the rest of the claims at face value; especially considering the telephone game used in passing all of the information through the ages. Also, half of the Roman generals of Jesus day were supposed to be born of Virgin mothers and sons of God’s, so why was Jesus so special then?

          • Luke Newport

            Its true that we haven’t found an substantial amount of evidence for the exodus however, this does not invalidate the bibles historical account since every other archeological discovery has not contradicted the bible by any means. In fact, we have evidence concerning biblical cities. Evolution hasnt disproven adam and eve, since macro-evolution itself hasnt been proven. No evidence has been seen to support the notion of one animal evolving into another. And geology makes more sense with noahs flood since science shows that the preservation of these fossils would require a global catastrophic event compressed by vast amounts of water. How is it possible that theses fossils were well preserved over millions pf years?

            Is there any evidence to support the Romans claims to divinity? Im guessing you took that from the teachings of Mithra. What makes Jesus special is that He was the prophecied Messiah from the beginning, that He would be born of a virgin in Bethlehem. He is God in the flesh (John 1:1, 14) and He rose from the dead three days after His crucifixion. Can you name any of these Roman generals that claimed to be ‘Sons on God’ that rose from the dead? Anyone at all?

        • vorpal

          Isn’t the Book of Matthew the only one that talks about all the zombie saints wandering through town?

        • rpm

          @KW: The latest of these prophecies were written around 450 BC and the others were much earlier. But in your case, as the old saying goes, you can lead a horse to water, but you can’t make him drink.

          Or as Jesus said in Mark 8: 17-19: But Jesus, being aware of it, said to them, “Why do you reason because you have no bread? Do you not yet perceive nor understand? Is your heart still[b] hardened? 18 Having eyes, do you not see? And having ears, do you not hear? And do you not remember?

          1 Cor. 1:18: For the message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God.

  • mykelb

    Hogwash.

    • helligusvart

      I agree. Atheism is hogwash.

      • satanaugustine

        But talking snakes and donkeys, the living dead (Matthew 27: 52-53, Lazarus, Jesus, etc.), dead fish and bread reproducing, a flat earth with a dome. Yeah, that’s all believable, but not believing in that is “hogwash”…. Really?

        • helligusvart

          The Bible doesn’t teach a flat earth. Everything else is true.

          • satanaugustine

            Then how is Satan able too show Jesus “all the kingdoms of the world” from atop a mountain when tempting him? (Matthew 4:8; Luke 4:5) No one can see the entirety of a sphere from a mountain top. Those verses only make sense if author believed in a flat earth. The Bible also speaks of “four corners of the earth.” A sphere obviously has no corners.

          • helligusvart

            “All the kingdoms of the world” is a figure of speech. The “four corners of the earth” probably refers to north, south, east and west. Come on, you can do better than this.

          • satanaugustine

            How did you come to the conclusion that “all the kingdoms of the world” is a figure of speech? Are you saying we can’t take the Bible writers at their word? If so I could just as easily suggest that “resurrection” is a mere figure of speech. How do you know which passages to interpret literally and which figuratively?

          • helligusvart

            What I meant is that Satan showing Jesus all the kingdoms of the world does not imply that Jesus could physically see the entire world from the mountaintop, even if the world was flat. Your comments are pure mockery, and not to be taken seriously.

          • satanaugustine

            Nice. You cannot answer my questions so you accuse me of mockery. My questions are serious.

          • helligusvart

            The “dome” refers to the atmosphere. And no, your questions are not serious. You are a mocker, evidenced by your screen name.

          • satanaugustine

            On the contrary, the firmament referred to a solid dome when the Bible was written and was thought to have small stars on it’s surface. The firmament opened when it rained because there was water above and below (the oceans) it (Genesis 1:6-7: 6 Then God said, “Let there be a firmament in the midst of the waters, and let it divide the waters from the waters.” 7 Thus God made the firmament, and divided the waters which were under the firmament from the waters which were above the firmament; and it was so. Later theologians such as Augustine and Aquinas also interpreted the firmament as being a solid dome. Belief in a solid dome covering the earth was widespread among both ancient civilizations and primitive cultures, including Israel and later, Christianity. If the Christian God were omniscient he would have known that there was no such thing as a firmament and would have told his people so. But as with every proposition about the earth and the universe (“the heavens”), the Bible gets it all wrong. It’s almost as though it were written by a bunch of men who knew nothing beyond what was common knowledge (which we now know is ignorance) for their time and place.

            Isn’t it embarrassing that this atheist knows more about your religion than you do. If you believe in extraordinary claims, doesn’t it make sense that you would go out of your way to find out the details of the beliefs you hold?

            By the way, mentioning my screen name is a red herring. It has nothing to do with this discussion and is the screen name I use for every article I comment on, not just religious articles. It’s a sign of desperation on your part.

  • The Skeptical Chymist

    Humans have evolved as a social species, and individuals who could not behave in a useful manner in society were undoubtedly cast out of the society and left to fend for themselves. Over generations, this tends to select for those who fit in to the society. It is easy to understand that a concept of justice and fair play would be selected for in these circumstances. People do tend to think that their good deeds will be rewarded, even if only in the sense that “virtue is its own reward.”

    None of this makes a bit of difference regarding the reality of God. It doesn’t prove he exists if people are “hard-wired” to believe in him. These sorts of observations provide information about the human psyche, nothing else.

    • Truth Offends

      “Humans have evolved as a social species”…from WHAT?

      • Rob T

        Google:
        Timeline of evolutionary history of life

        • Truth Offends

          Quick check: “timeline of evolutionary history of life,” and “timeline of human evolution” do not show what humans supposedly evolved FROM—only when humans supposedly first appeared.

          • Rob T

            Sorry my mistake. Google: Human evolution

          • Russell Sayce

            I guess that means you can’t tell him…?

          • Rob T

            No, just that comments with links get held up at BarbWire (at least for me) so it’s usually quicker just to tell people what to Google instead. But I did provide him with a partial list just a few seconds ago.

          • MidwestMother

            Show me how and where human evolution was observed. According to the Smithsonian quoted above, they have not observed human evolution and don’t even have actual hard evidence it ever occurred. All they have is supposition. So again – please give the documented evidence you cited concerning “observed” species evolving to another species.

          • Rob T

            Let me retract that. When I google timeline of human evolution I find a history of pre-human ancestors.

          • Truth Offends

            I find history of when, what you call, “pre-human ancestors” supposedly existed–but not anything showing that those were actually “pre-human”. Maybe you can direct me to page that shows what humans supposedly evolved FROM–or maybe you could just tell me what that is.

          • Rob T

            Australopithecus, Homo habilus, Homo erectus. We have some genetic heritage for Neandertals, based on DNA analysis. All this is pretty easy to find.

          • Truth Offends

            How silly! Where’s the proof (something evolutionists demand for existence of God) that “Australopithecus, Homo habilus, Homo erectus, and Neanderthal” ARE supposedly “pre-human”? Oh..that’s right. There isn’t any. To believe humans “evolved” from some non-human life form is a matter of faith!

          • Rob T

            Sorry, you asked for a list of ancestors, and I provided that.

            Now you appear to be asking for proof that those are ancestors, which is something additional, and of course is far too involved for a comment box. Luckily, though, Google exists. Try:
            evidence for evolution

            Or:
            DNA evidence for evolution

          • Truth Offends

            I did not ask for a “list of ancestors.” I asked what humans supposedly evolved FROM. A list of supposed “ancestors” does not say what humans supposedly evolved FROM if that list does not also show that those supposed “ancestors” ARE not human and ARE “pre-human.”

          • Rob T

            We “evolved from” our evolutionary ancestors. That’s what evolutionary ancestors means. And a list is just that: a list. It’s not a comprehensive explanation of the theory and evidence behind the list; that would be a different thing.

            I honestly don’t know what your source of dissatisfaction is.

          • Truth Offends

            LOL! I was researching what it is that scientists supposedly believe humans “evolved” FROM. I cannot believe what I just read…from none other than…the Smithsonian Institute! The following imaginary conversation sums it up:
            ———————————————————-
            Smithsonian Institute: Humans and “the great apes” have a common ancestor.
            Truth Offends: How do you know that?
            Smithsonian Institute: Humans are “apes.”
            Truth Offends: Apes.
            Smithsonian Institute: Humans are “apes.” Human DNA is similar to ape DNA–and human behavior is similar to ape behavior. That’s how we know they have a “common ancestor”.

            Truth Offends: What is that supposed “common ancestor” of humans and “apes”? (From what did humans supposedly “evolve”?)
            Smithsonian Institute: We don’t know.

            Truth Offends: Why don’t you know?
            Smithsonian Institute: We haven’t found the remains yet.
            Truth Offends: (speechless)
            Smithsonian Institute: But we know that “common ancestor” lived 6-8 million years ago.

            Truth Offends: Amazing! You don’t know what that “common ancestor” is, but you know there is one, and you know it lived 6-8 million years ago.
            Wow! Science!
            ——————————————————————
            And, this is what happens when God is ruled out of the equation (as scientists do–b/c there supposedly is no “evidence” of God and scientists only deal with “evidence,” you know).

          • Truth Offends

            I posted the same reply to your comment—three times. The two other times contain a link that I thought I disabled (trying to avoid delay of posting b/c moderators deal with links). Links weren’t disabled. So, my comment below is same as other two–but without link.
            When other two comments get published, I’ll delete them.

          • helligusvart

            Ancestors of atheists might include Australodopus,, Homo drippus, Homo crackpottus, and—well, Neanderthal fits, since it describes atheistic theories.

          • helligusvart

            “Homo erectus” sounds like something obscene.

          • MidwestMother

            Actually, the Human Genome Project proved that all humans related back to one single family. But that little fact didn’t receive much attention. Interesting… this is something evolutionists haven’t really explained to the rest of us. Was it just one ape that evolved into a man, or was there a large group that evolved? And… if varied apes evolved… were they in close proximity? If so, how come some didn’t evolve on one continent, and some on another? If they did evolve as separate groups on separate continents, (which would make sense according to the theory of evolution. Prime conditions should have existed in various areas of the world) ….how come the genome project related all humans back to one ancestral family? And if they did evolve in separate groups – how come the genome project not only related everyone back to one single family… but found conclusively that there is NO gene for what we refer to as “race”? There is NO gene – (despite ads touting the ability to prove your Indian heritage) – NO DNA that denotes race – only genes for familial differences in cheek structure, texture of hair, color of eyes and skin, etc…. And it all relates back to one single human family. That is proven, undeniable, on the record science. So, with respect to those documented facts, please enlighten us on the specifics of how this evolution took place.

          • helligusvart

            I find a history of fools.

          • Rob T

            Well, yes, by our standards the intelligence of these species was lower than what we’d consider smart today.

          • helligusvart

            Actually, human intellect hasn’t changed. We are simply better educated these days. But that has nothing to do with evolution.

          • Rob T

            I’m talking about different species — non Homo Sapiens.

          • helligusvart

            Okay, but I still question it. I can accept evolution within species, since God made the animals according to their own kind. (Genesis 1:21, 24-25). But I can’t accept evolution from one species to another, or evolution of humans, because God’s Word says otherwise.

          • Rob T

            First off, we’ve seen one species evolve into another. It’s been observed.

            But where does God say one species can’t evolve into another? Chapter and verse, please.

          • helligusvart

            First off, no species has evolved into another. It hasn’t been observed. The pseudoscientists who say otherwise are crackpots. Second, I quoted Genesis 1:21, 24-25) which states that God created the animals EACH ACCORDING TO THEIR KIND. “Kind” means species. This was a final act. If it wasn’t God would have told us. Since nowhere does the Bible say that one species evolved into another, it didn’t happen!

          • MidwestMother

            Please provide your chapter and verse where evolution from one species to another has been observed. I want to know the factual, observed evidence of that having taken place. That is a far more important question than the verse you are requesting from the Bible.

        • helligusvart

          Google: Stupid theories by stupid people.

    • helligusvart

      But who created the human psyche?

      • The Skeptical Chymist

        Who created the smallpox virus or the chimpanzee psyche? In your view, all was created by God, I suppose (forgive me if this is an incorrect assumption). In my view, they evolved from previous forms of life, without intervention by a god.

        • helligusvart

          I don’t know what creates viruses. What I do know is that God made the first two humans, and all others come the usual way. The fact that there is disease in this world doesn’t mean God Himself created them. He does obviously allow them, though.

  • http://www.mamaditto.com mamaditto

    Whenever someone disputes the existence of God to me, I always ask them if they believe in the reality of evil. That thought gets them to think.

    • QuestionsEverything

      What does the “reality of evil” have to do with the existence or non-existence of the god of Abraham?

      • Truth Offends

        Everyone knows there is a Creator God, but not every knows the Creator God is the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob.

        • QuestionsEverything

          “Everyone knows there is a Creator God”

          First, this a false premise since not everyone believes in the existence of a Creator God.

          Second, those who do believe in the existence of a Creator God do not “know” there is one, but have faith that there is one.

          • Truth Offends

            Everyone knows there is a Creator God but not everyone “believes in” God.

          • QuestionsEverything

            Again, it is hubristic of you to claim to know what everyone knows.

          • Truth Offends

            I believe the Bible is true and that all Scripture is by inspiration of God. According to the Bible (not me) everyone knows there is a Creator God.

          • vorpal

            There are long-standing Asian religions that have never had any concept of a creator god, unless you abstract the idea of god away into near-meaninglessness.

          • Russell Sayce

            To deny a creator God, is to put forth the notion that man is the most superior being known. Bwhahahahahahahahaha….

            I feel sorry for those people…..

          • Ray – Jesus is the Son of God.

            Psalm 14:1
            The fool hath said in his heart, There is no God

          • MidwestMother

            Please don’t be hubristic – claiming those who believe do not “know” there is a God – as if you are the one to judge the minds of others. You have no idea what their experience or insight is. Many know there is a God – whether you like it or not.

      • http://www.mamaditto.com mamaditto

        Because without God as the objective standard for righteousness man has no basis by which to distinguish good from evil.

    • vorpal

      I believe that humans create concepts to define and classify the world around them. Evil is one of those concepts. So what?

      • http://www.mamaditto.com mamaditto

        On what objective basis can we humans declare something to be evil?

    • Bolvon72

      Sure, if there is a god, why is there evil. Ok, done thinking about god.

      • http://www.mamaditto.com mamaditto

        God is the reference point for all that is good and righeous. Without God, there is no basis for calling anything evil.
        As an extreme example, Hitler thought he was doing “good” by exterminating Jews. Without God, there is no basis for saying he was wrong to wage WW2 and murder so many people. If man is just a descendant of primates through random chance, then there very well could be a Master Race.

        • Bolvon72

          As per your bible, 25,000,000 killed by that reference point. I guess he is the basis of evil. Or the role model for Stalin.

          • http://www.mamaditto.com mamaditto

            You need to explain this assertion in more detail, please.

          • Bolvon72

            Open the book and start counting.

          • http://www.mamaditto.com mamaditto

            Not good enough. Explain in detail exactly what it is you are asserting.

          • Bolvon72

            Why? I told you my numbers and where to find them, I am not going to list the almost 200 incidents of either direct or ordered murder by the biblical god, you have my reference, waste your own time.

  • James Maxwell

    Atheist do not exist in Nature, they simply have not been smacked up aside the
    head yet with reality.

    • Guest

      Yes, the reality that Bronze Age myths about a crazy god that sacrificed itself to itself so it wouldn’t angry with it’s creation for behaving exactly how it knew they were going to behave.

      Gods are no more real than dragons, leprechauns, astrology or anything else rooted in ignorance, fear and superstition.

      There have been roughly 4,000 different gods that humanity has worshiped over the last 10,000 years, but let me guess, all those were fake but yours is real?

      • James Acre

        The fool hath said in his heart, There is no God.

        • Rob T

          How do you know a fool didn’t say that?

          • helligusvart

            Explain the complexity of the human brain. Explain the fact that conditions on earth are just right for human life, as opposed to every other planet in our solar system. Don’t tell me it just happened that way by chance. That’s poppycock.

          • Rob T

            Conditions on earth are just right for human life because human life evolved to thrive in conditions on earth. If conditions had been different, life would be different. Just as there are fish that evolved to live in sulfuric acid.

          • helligusvart

            I haven’t heard of masses of people dying because conditions weren’t right. You need to stop deifying human beings. We are not the measure of all things.

          • Rob T

            I don’t know what you’re trying to say. Masses of human beings die all the time when conditions aren’t right (even the Noah story falls into that category. But even then, how does your first sentence relate to what I’m saying.

            The rest of your point is a mystery. You seem to be the one who say humans are the measure of all things — that earth was created to meet human needs, rather than humans evolving to fit earth conditions.

          • helligusvart

            First of all, humans died in the days of Noah because GOD KILLED THEM. He orchestrated the conditions that brought about their deaths because all they could think about was doing evil. My statement relates to your post in that humans don’t have to “evolve” in order to live under Earth’s conditions. God both created the conditions Himself and created human beings to thrive in those conditions. There was NO evolution involved. Evolution is a myth. It is a fairy tale, tantamount to Santa Claus or the Easter Bunny. IT NEVER HAPPENED.
            Second, humans are not the measure of all things—GOD IS. Yes, Earth was created to meet human needs, but GOD CREATED BOTH. And He created them FOR HIS GLORY. (Isaiah 43:7) Not their own, God’s. Therefore, God is the measure of all things.

          • vorpal

            Flooding, drought, famine, cold spells, heat spells. I could continue, but I think you get the point.

            Again, you have it entirely wrong: not acknowledging the existence of a god and saying that humans evolved to fit the conditions on Earth has nothing to do with deifying humans. It has to do with refusing the very idea of deification of anything. Atheists don’t think that humans are special in any way: it is Christians that do.

          • Russell Sayce

            Life is an amazing force…..

          • Luke Newport

            You’re simply begging the question. Do you have observable evidence that supports your claims that we evolved to thrive in conditions on earth?

          • vorpal

            Yes. The diversity of life that exists in vastly different conditions (now and throughout history) on Earth, with us being but one of those forms suited for one set of those conditions.

          • Luke Newport

            That sounds more like natural selection. The diversity that we see through different conditions on earth are a result of speciation and adaption which gives us variation within different taxonomic groups (kinds). It can be seen in humans too where those born in Africa have a very dark shade of brown and those born in Europe have a very light shade of brown. This doesnt support the notion of different taxonomic groups evolving from one to the other over different conditions of the earth throughout history. Do you have evidence to support that?

          • vorpal

            Life evolved on earth from earlier forms through random mutation and natural selection, and it is precisely through natural selection and survivability that life forms that were best adapted to their environs continued.

            There is plenty of evidence of speciation, and there are plenty of resources explaining it readily available that will give you far better, more in-depth details than I could. You can ignore them if you like or choose to disbelieve them, but the consensus amongst the overwhelming majority of scientists is that, after looking objectively at the evidence that evolution is by far the best model to fit it, and given that it has repeatedly stood up as testable, verifiable, and predictive, at this point it is accepted as a fact. If new evidence comes along that somehow disproves evolution (vanishingly unlikely), then either the theory will be modified or discarded, as has been done in many other fields of science throughout history.

            On the other hand, those who abide by religion – especially in fundamentalist forms – choose to take old texts and try to interpret the evidence to fit the mythology, i.e. the reverse of the scientific process: it begins with the desired conclusions and attempts to make the observations and evidence support them. The stubborn self-preservation of this approach as opposed to the self-correcting nature of the scientific method is ultimately anti-intellectual.

          • Luke Newport

            I’m guessing you’re speaking of evolution in the “macro” sense. If life evolved from earlier forms through natural selection and mutations, then shouldn’t we expect to find an increase of information in the genome of an organism? Because thus far, natural selection and mutations only subtracts information within an organism’s genome – which is more consistent with the creation model. When we see organisms adapt to particular environments through natural selection (working with preexisting information), we see variety within the same taxonomic group of organisms; contrary to the claims that one organism evolved into an entirely different one.

            I’m aware of speciation and the observable evidence for it however, I disagree with the interpretations based on unprovable evolutionary assumptions that are used to explain it. Though some populations rarely interbreed with one another, this is due to geographic isolation and other factors involved. In no way does it support macro-evolution.
            You know that the majority of the scientific community have the presupposition that there is no God right? If the evidence was looked at objectively, there would be no presuppositions involved from both sides. Macro-evolution has thus far not been observed, tested nor survived repeatable testing so it cannot be accepted as a fact. But many scientists with firm held biased presuppositions still hold to the belief that it is. Even key evolutionists (Stephan J. Gould) of the 20th century admitted that there was alot of inconsistency within the evolution paradigm. New evidence is out there to put evolution to question: Galaxies spiral up too fast, the magnetic field of the earth is decaying rapidly, not enough salt in the ocean to support millions of years. These are just a few examples.

            You accuse “religious fundamentalists” of beginning with desired conclusions and make evidence to support them yet evolutionists do the very same thing with their very own desired conclusions- that life evolved through unguided natural processes over millions of years. Both creationists and evolutionists have starting assumptions, based on their presuppositions. They both agree on the observable scientific method of understanding how the universe works. Yet when it comes to the origins of how it happened, their interpretations are different. Both evolution and Christianity are religions (since religion can mean a principle or system of beliefs generally held by ador or faith). But by your logic however, you say those who begin with desired conclusions are reversing the scientific process, so when you assumed that life evolved from earlier life forms through natural selection and mutation, you just began with a desired conclusion. Which, by your logic, makes you unscientific and “anti-intellectual”.

          • vorpal

            Of course it didn’t happen that way by chance. Billions of years of natural selection is the key.

          • vorpal

            LOL I was precisely going to say:
            The fool hath said: “The fool hath said in his heart: ‘There is no god.'”
            You beat me to pretty much the same thing.

    • vorpal

      Again, a Christian who has it completely backwards. Most US / Canadian atheists – due to the society we’re raised in – are precisely ex-Christians who were smacked upside the head with reality.

  • godsmotive

    Not the dumbest thing I’ve heard. But close.

  • trishae61

    Why is it so hard to believe in ONE TRUE GOD, God Almighty, Creator of Heaven and Earth. This argument has been going on for the past 3-5000 yrs, don’t ya think that by now GOD have definitely proven Himself?

    • Rob T

      Exactly. I would think that by this time “God” would have definitely proven Himself. The fact that He has not, then, argue against His existence.

      • helligusvart

        He doesn’t have to prove Himself. He wants us to believe in Him by faith. That gives Him greater glory.

        • Rob T

          And if we don’t, we go to Hell? You’re painting a picture of an abusive, needy, evil deity.

          • helligusvart

            Hate to tell you this, Robbie m’boy, but God made US, not the other way around. He doesn’t have to act according to our wishes. He could consign all of us to the fires of Hell and still be morally perfect, especially since we have all sinned grievously against Him. None of us are deserving of ANY kindness from God. He is kind because He is good, according to HIS definition, NOT yours!

          • Rob T

            But didn’t Adam and Eve eat from the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil? You’re painting a picture of an abusive, needy, evil deity.

          • helligusvart

            What, pray tell, does this have to do with my post?

          • Rob T

            You’re telling me that He is good according to his definition, not a human definition. But if Adam and Eve eat from the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil that God created, we should be working from the same definitions.

            And according to that definition, you’re painting a picture of an abusive, needy, evil deity.

          • Russell Sayce

            Interesting…..passing judgement on God and making it look like someone else is doing it, that’s very sssssssneaky…..

          • Rob T

            But I’m not passing judgment on God. I’m passing judgment on helligusvart’s description of God. Different things.

          • helligusvart

            Abusive, needy, and evil according to YOUR definition, not God’s. Why can’t you accept that anyone who rejects a God who sent His only Son to die for us so that we could live with Him forever deserves to suffer conscious, never-ending torment in the lake of fire? YOU DIDN’T MAKE GOD!! Your arrogance is astounding.

          • vorpal

            > “if Adam and Eve eat from the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil that God created, we should be working from the same definitions.”

            This is a fantastic point that I hadn’t considered before. Thanks for bringing it up!

          • vorpal

            The only interpretation of this story that makes the least bit of sense to me – from creating said tree of knowledge of good and evil in the first place, then telling humans not to eat from it while knowing through omniscience that they would – is that this god is at least to a substantial degree evil and knew that once A+E ate from the tree, they, too, would know it, and then he could morally justify to himself the pain that he henceforth inflicted repeatedly on his own creation.

          • helligusvart

            You are a tortured soul. What horrors befell you in your life to sour your attitude so much?

          • vorpal

            If this is what being a “tortured soul” is like, then sign me up for another 50+ years, because I’m absolutely loving my life and there is very, very little that I would choose to change.

            You are misinterpreting my critical book report on your holy book as a “souring,” which it isn’t: I’m just calling a poorly thought out story for what it is. What is truly sour is the belief that humanity is fallen and evil due to some original sin. How utterly pessimistic, negative, and unsupportable!

          • helligusvart

            Your homosexuality is proof positive of your fallen nature.

          • vorpal

            And again, a Christian has it completely backwards.

        • vorpal

          Same with the Tooth Fairy.

          • http://www.landoverbaptist.org/ Team Red vs. Team Blue

            At least there’s evidence for the Tooth Fairy.

      • Russell Sayce

        Right now He’s giving you a chance to prove yourself, He has no identity issues….

    • vorpal

      Agreed.

      If an omnipotent god exists and couldn’t be bothered to put in a real, honest-to-goodness appearance (apart from the warm fuzzy feeling in some people’s hearts) and prove himself to be the one and only god over all the other thousands and thousands of gods created by humans over time, and the story supposedly written by humans but divinely inspired by him contradicts so many testable and verifiable things we’ve learned about reality, then I’m sorry, but to anyone with even half a functioning brain, it is obvious that humans created said god in their image and not the other way around.

      The simple fact is that at least one of the following likely hold:
      1. You were raised Christian, so the mythology of Christianity is so familiar to you that you can’t see the utter ridiculousness of it; or
      2. It makes you feel good in some way to believe in your god, probably through a sense of being loved, being validated, and being righteous.

      The universe doesn’t owe you an explanation. It doesn’t owe you a reason for existing. It doesn’t owe you a reason for your existence. It doesn’t owe you justice or an afterlife, and while it might make you feel good to believe in those things, those beliefs are almost certainly unjustified and simply a way for you to feel in control and to deal with the uncertainty and prospect of a finite life in a universe both without objective purpose.

      As a former Christian – now atheist, when I began to seriously doubt the existence of god, it terrified the heck out of me and I struggled to relinquish the comforts that religion had given me; however, to be honest and not live in cognitive dissonance with facts and with my lack of belief in a god, it was an exercise and period of intense existential strife that I had to endure. I am a much, much better person because of it.

      • helligusvart

        I’d be interested in hearing more about the reasons behind your eventual rejection of Christ. I suspect something bad happened.

  • helligusvart

    “Where can I go from your spirit? Where can I flee from your presence?” (Psalm 139:7)

    • Rob T

      Stalker God?

      • helligusvart

        You’re a regular riot.

        • Rob T

          Just mirroring what you say back to you.

      • Russell Sayce

        He heard that….!!!

        • Rob T

          :)

  • Dawn1257

    Ahhh, I get it. So, there’s a “God” gene, but not a gay gene.

    Suuuurrrre!

    • http://www.landoverbaptist.org/ Team Red vs. Team Blue

      He works in Mysterious Ways…

      • James Acre

        More mysterious to some than to others… God does nothing without first revealing it to his servants the prophets. (Amos 3:7
        Surely the Lord God will do nothing, but he revealeth his secret unto his servants the prophets)

  • Jeff Noncent

    a person who is an atheist in reality there not

  • tomd

    I find it amazing that religious people are so threatened by Atheists – more than any other group. Christians may distrust Muslims or other faiths, but the concept of someone discarding religion altogether seems to set off a “fight or flight” response. Like the desperate and inaccurate drivel above.

    • helligusvart

      I find it amazing that atheists and homosexuals are so threatened by Christians—more than any other group.

      • tomd

        Well, pop quiz – which of the following has passed laws preventing the other from holding office: Christians or Atheists?

      • http://www.landoverbaptist.org/ Team Red vs. Team Blue

        Don’t be so easily amazed. When the 85% majority gets to pass laws based on what their Imaginary Friend likes, that’s threatening to people who aren’t in the tribe.

        • helligusvart

          In our country, the 85% has that right. Why don’t you join the tribe? Oh, I’m sorry, silly me, I forget. You’re a fool.

  • paulhenn1

    just. plain. stupid.

  • http://www.techthoughts.net/ Daniel Bastian

    This article sums up why Christians aren’t taken seriously anymore. Yes, you may have won yourself a few cheap clicks with this drivel, but you’ve also underlined why sectarian religion has little to say of relevance to the modern world.

  • GalapagosPete

    Another idiot blithers.

    Sorry, but that’s all the consideration such nonsense deserves.

  • http://www.landoverbaptist.org/ Team Red vs. Team Blue

    Wait.. If we are evolved to believe in God, then Evil-lution is… True! ZOMG

    • helligusvart

      Not evolved, hardwired. The latter means God put it in us.

  • Sam

    Atheism is a form of idolatry. This breaks the First Commandment.

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