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BREAKING: Supreme Court Passes on Change Therapy Ban, Fight Continues

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Washington, DC—The Supreme Court passed on Liberty Counsel’s petition regarding California’s ban on change therapy in the case of Pickup v. Brown. Two lower court judges and two separate appellate panels have issued conflicting opinions upholding and blocking the ban on change therapy. A three-judge panel of the Ninth Circuit Court of Appeals issued an injunction pending appeal, followed by a three-judge panel that upheld the law. That panel then agreed to continue the injunction blocking the law until he Supreme Court had a chance to weigh in on the case. Today’s decision by the Supreme Court to pass on the case means the proceeding will go back to the Ninth Circuit Court of Appeals, which could lift the injunction and allow the law to go into effect.

The California law was the first to restrict licensed counselors from offering, and minor clients and their parents from receiving, any counsel to change unwanted same-sex attractions, behaviors, or identity.

“I am deeply saddened for the families we represent and for the thousands of children that our professional clients counsel, many of whom developed these unwanted attractions because of abuse of a pedophile. The minors we represent do not want to act on same-sex attractions, nor do they want to engage in such behavior. They are greatly benefiting from this counseling. Their grades have gone up, their self-esteem has improved, and their relationships at home are much improved,” said Mat Staver, Founder and Chairman of Liberty Counsel. “These children have been victimized twice – first by the likes of Jerry Sandusky, and second by legislators and judges who have essentially barged into their private therapy rooms and told them that they must pursue their unwanted and dangerous same-sex sexual attractions and behavior,” said Staver.

Only one to two percent of cases that request a hearing before the High Court are accepted for review. When the Supreme Court declines to hear a case, it does not rule on the merits. Typically the Court looks to resolve conflicts in the Circuit Courts of Appeal and state Supreme Courts. Pickup v. Brown was the first change therapy case in the country. It is possible the High Court will wait to take up a later case. In July another federal court of appeals will hear argument on a virtually identical law passed in New Jersey, which case Liberty Counsel also represents.

“I can assure you the battle over change therapy is far from over. We will be back,” concluded Staver.

Liberty Counsel is an international nonprofit, litigation, education, and policy organization dedicated to advancing religious freedom, the sanctity of life, and the family since 1989, by providing pro bono assistance and representation on these and related topics.

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  • ErickMN

    Could the Liberty Counsel possibly lose any more cases? Who in the world is sending them money, just to see it flushed down the toilet? Hilarious.

    • Cheyenne W.

      It’s not one of these modern, low flow toilets they are flushing arm loads of cash down either, but one of those 1920s 6 gallon per flush models that you have to keep pets and small children away from lest they disappear…

      • ErickMN

        LOL! You had me laughing out loud at my desk. Thank you!

        • Cheyenne W.

          Trust me, I have one in my house and there is nothing that can withstand it.

    • TruthDetector

      Actually Liberty Counsel rarely loses. They have around a 90% win victory against the ACLU and 100% win victory in dozens of “Good News Club” Bible clubs in public schools cases. Keep your lies and hate to yourself.

      • ErickMN

        Liberty Counsel has been slapped down hard on every LGBT case they have ever argued. They’re a shameless organziation that feeds on fear and intolerance. And Staver made a complete fool of himself testifying before congress recently. You and your hateful ilk deserve the garbage Liberty Counsel.

  • Michex

    Homosexuals believe that heterosexuals can become homosexual (like that Episcopal Bishop) but not in the other direction. The more homosexuals the better, they believe.

    • ErickMN

      So, you are the spokesperson for homosexuals? How did you get that job?

      • Michex

        I am not a spokesperson, but homosexuals are very predictable.

        • ErickMN

          And you know that because you spend a lot of time watching them? Why?

          • Michex

            I don’t “watch” homosexuals. I leave that to homosexuals.
            You pro-homosexuals spend a lot of time on traditional sites like this. Why? Looking for a reparative therapist?

          • Cheyenne W.

            Nope, just here to combat your lies, cherry picking, distortions, out of date sources, and general bigotry. Oh, and to watch you all writhe and scream as we win another legal fight. It’s my daily entertainment. Hope that you had a fun and enjoyable Pride month.

          • ErickMN

            I couldn’t have said it better. Thank you.

          • Michex

            What psychological method is “proven” and shown to “always” be “safe”? None.
            Which ones are banned? None.
            You want to pick out one and ban it. Truly stupid and biased.

          • Kyle

            Most “aversion” therapy methods are banned.

          • Cheyenne W.

            I doubt that you would find a single reputable psychiatrist in any major city in North America who would be willing to engage in reparative therapy. Rarely is anything banned when it comes to psychiatry, but in this case I can see no harm in not letting minors (who can be legally coerced by parents) wait until they are 18 to try RT. I see nothing wrong with holding off a few years. Oh, and as a side note, I have known hundreds of gay men in my life and not once EVER has a single one of them confided that their same sex attractions were “unwanted.” Go back to wearing your tinfoil hat and spouting losing legal arguments in court please.

          • ErickMN

            Slapping down you haters is great fun. Thank you for making it so easy!

    • MDB

      As if YOU had any rational thought or logic. (as evidence your comment in another thread about performing one homosexual act in front of the whole congregation):
      ~ Michex • 2 hours ago

      “There is a new religion, called homosexuality. Homosexuals are actively recruiting for it. You can join if you are a heterosexual, but you must perform at least one homosexual act in front of the whole congregation. That is what the homosexuals look forward to. They will cheer you on. Homosexual churches have their own boy scout troops.”
      – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - –
      You, Michex, are twisted, paranoid, irrational, perverse, illogical and INSANE.

  • BadKarma

    The homosexual agenda is all about accessing our children and indoctrinating them into the perverse world of homosexuality. This law, which prevents therapy to young victims of homosexual molestation, is just further evidence of what the homosexual agenda is really all about. Homosexuals are a sick, twisted bunch of perverse sexual psychopaths who prey on children.

    • ErickMN

      How hilarious that you are so threatened by gay people! Do they make you cry?

      • Cheyenne W.

        I am picturing the church lady from SNL with her eyes bugged out from too much meth rubbing hands obsessively and screaming “the homasekuls” over and over compulsively.

      • BadKarma

        Homosexuals are a threat to every child on the planet. Stay away from our children. Nobody cares what you do to each other.

        • Cheyenne W.

          It must burn you up that I teach school and that I am gay. And not just any old gay, but the kind who is comfortable with who I am and happily in a very long term relationship of 10 years.

          • BadKarma

            Pray for the children, to protect them from homosexual deviants.

          • Kyle

            By putting homosexual children and teenagers into “therapy” which has been proven to make them far more likely to kill themselves and engage in self-destructive behaviors?

            You must see this as a way to fix a problem, right?

          • BadKarma

            Why do homosexuals have a problem with children receiving therapy as victims of homosexual manipulation and indoctrination?

          • Kyle

            Why do you want homosexual teenagers to be at higher risk of suicide?

          • Michex

            Homosexuals get “researchers” to dummy up the research papers and lie.

          • Kyle

            Do they also get peer reviewers to dummy up their reviews and respected journals to dummy up their publishing boards? The level to which you people need to rely on conspiracy theories almost staggers belief.

          • Michex

            Can men breastfeed babies and give them a healthy immune system? Do your breasts give milk?

          • Kyle

            What should we do with the 37% of woman who will not breast feed? Should we take their children off them and give them to mothers who will “give them a healthy immune system”?

          • Cheyenne W.

            What on earth do breasts have to do with the topic of reparative therapy?

          • Cheyenne W.

            Yes, just like we cause hurricanes, earthquakes, and other natural disasters. I think you ascribe a bit too much power to us, probably like the monster in your closet that only comes out once the lights are turned off. Go complain to your mommy about the gays are corrupting science and causing natural disasters… Or better yet, a psychiatrist. I bet that session would be interesting.

          • ErickMN

            Why does BadKarma obsess about homosexuality 24 hours a day?

          • Michex

            Because they want to tell minors and parents who want such therapy that they can’t get it. Homosexuals are fascists.
            Ask homosexuals why they would allow ADULTS to get such therapy. Why not ban it completely?

          • Truth Offends

            The APA Task Force did NOT say change therapy harmful!
            So, what is the source for your claim that it’s supposedly “proven” harmful?

          • Kyle

            They will soon, several comprehensive studies have been published in the past year which confirm Shidlo & Schroeder’s 2002 findings of harm. There are also several more studies being published this year.

          • ErickMN

            Pray for BadKarma, that he whines and moans about gay people every single day for the rest of his miserable life.

          • Cheyenne W.

            I know lots of gay men that teach school and not one has every so much as been accused of an impropriety.

        • garybryson

          Ditto that Cheyenne! Have worked with children for over 17yrs. I’m not gay but an ardent supporter. Hope it burns you up too BK!

        • ErickMN

          Your usual ignorant and uninformed garbage. YOU are more of a threat to children than gay people. Stay away from them.

      • Michex

        You seem to fear heterosexuals. That is why you are on this site so much. Feeling persecuted?

    • Boo

      The only people claiming this is going to somehow interfere in therapy for sexually abused kids are the ex-gay industry. There hasn’t been a peep of protest against these laws from the sex abuse counseling community.

  • Michex

    By the way, have ANY psychological therapies or methods been proven effective? Are they ALL proven to be safe? I think the answers are no and no.

  • Kyle

    These kinds of nonsense quack “therapies” have not only been proven to be completely ineffective, they have also been definitively shown to be dangerous especially to minors where they are associated with higher rates of suicide, depression, maladjustment issues and an increased risk of self-destructive behaviors like substance abuse, promiscuity and STD infection. [1][2][3][4]

    While I certainly believe that any adult should be free to undergo whatever unnecessary, discredited, disproved and potentially dangerous elective “therapy” they please, these lawsuits are an attempt to obstruct what has been a recent trend in many states by both professional licensing boards and state legislatures to protect children from this kind of high risk, discredited nonsense and that is unacceptable.

    Children need to be protected from this kind of so-called “ex-gay” torture and if their parents are unable or unwilling to protect them from it, it is up to professional licensing boards and/or the state to do so instead.

    If extremist anti-gay parents truly care about the happiness and adjustment of their gay and same-sex attracted children, they ought to accept and love all of them and take an active role in their life and relationships as this has been shown to greatly lower the risks of those children suffering from depression, suicide, maladjustment issues and engaging in self-destructive behaviors. [5]

    [1] Flentje, A., Heck, N. C., & Cochran, B. N. – Sexual reorientation therapy interventions: Perspectives of ex-ex-gay individuals. – 2013 [2] Flentje, A., Heck, N. C., & Cochran, B. N. – Experiences of ex-ex-gay individuals in sexual reorientation therapy: Reasons for seeking treatment, perceived helpfulness and harmfulness of treatment, and post-treatment identification. -2013 [3] Dehlin, J.P., Galliher, R.V., Bradshaw, W.S., Hyde, D.C., & Crowell K.A. – Sexual Orientation Change Efforts Among Current or Former LDS Church Members. -2014 [4] Bradshaw, K., Dehlin, J.P., Crowell, K.A., Galliher, R.V, & Bradshaw, W.S.- Sexual Orientation Change Efforts through Psychotherapy for LGBQ Individuals Affiliated With the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints. -2014 [5] Ryan, C., Huebner, D., Diaz, R. M., & Sanchez, J. – Family rejection as a predictor of negative health outcomes in lesbian, gay, and bisexual young adults – 2009

    • BadKarma

      More homosexual propaganda to further their agenda of exploiting children.

      • Kyle

        I guess reality has a well know pro-homosexual bias!

        I cited my sources for argument that I made in the above comment, if you have a problem with the peer reviewed studies which prove what I said take it up with the respective psychologists, psychiatrists and sociologists and the journals which published and reviewed their work.

        Tell me this though, because I very curious, why do you want more homosexual teenagers dead? That is what this nonsense leads to.

        • BadKarma

          Your sources are no different than all of that global warming data that Leftist’s worship. It is agenda driven and skewed. It has zero credibility.

          • Kyle

            I have journal published, peer reviewed studies to back up what I said, you have an opinion biased on your bias for and hatred of homosexuals. You’re the one with zero credibility here.

          • BadKarma

            All you have is a hockey stick graph.

          • Kyle

            All I have is reality, thankfully that’s all I need…

          • Truth Offends

            I checked your sources. It appears they do not say what you claim they say.

          • MDB

            Good freakin’ grief, you are paranoid AND delusional.
            It must really suck to be so highly uneducated and ignorant, simultaneously.

          • Michex

            The homosexual men who post here probably do so because deep down they want to be around heterosexual men and be one.
            This website is their reparative therapy. If they post enough, they will start feeling like a heterosexual.

          • garybryson

            HAHAHAHAHAHAHA! Keep dreaming big boy…LOL!

          • Cheyenne W.

            You have a really good sense of humor.

          • Truth Offends

            I checked his sources. It appears they don’t say what Kyle claims they say.

          • garybryson

            tattle tale. are you 3 or 4 y/o?

        • Michex

          Kyle, can two men breastfeed a baby? If not, the baby’s immune system is deprived.

          • garybryson

            thats a reach. so are you condeming those mothers who choose not to breastfeed their infants? if not, you’re a hypocrite

          • Kyle

            37% of mothers according to the CDC…

          • Michex

            Men can NEVER breastfeed their babies. That is the difference. That some women can’t or won’t is beside the point.
            It proves that Mother Nature never intended 2 men to raise a baby.
            Two married homosexual men can NEVER give a baby the immune system it deserves.
            Go take that Biology 101 course you homosexuals flunked.

          • Kyle

            And 37% of women never beast feed their babies either Mich. Should we talk their children off them and give to mothers more willing do act as mother nature intended?

          • Michex

            Those children were born to the Mother, as nature intended.
            I know you do not understand that.
            Those Mothers make their own choices for their own babies, and sometimes it is a difficult one. But it is a choice they have the right to make.
            2 men on the other hand were clearly NEVER meant to be the primary caretaker for an infant. I know you do not like that, but it is true. They can’t give the infant milk.
            You are willing to put an infant into the hands of two homosexual men who cannot – ever – breastfeed or nurture the child according to Nature’s way – which is the MOTHER’s way.
            This is 100% defiance of Nature. Your pathetic arguments do not help a baby one iota. All you are is a Homosexualist.

          • Kyle

            Oh please enough with this sophomoric nonsense, you know how long it takes me to disembowel this idiotic argument? About half a second.

            Every child was born to a mother, however not every child is raised by the mother who gave birth to them, that is a fact of life and the fact that you don’t like it isn’t going to change it.

            Gay people are going to procreate, I know you don’t like that but there is nothing you can do to stop it and how they choose to raise their children is their business and none of yours even if a gay mans nipples lack mammary glands.

            Moreover, nature doesn’t have “intents”, it just is, it doesn’t have needs or wants.

      • ErickMN

        And yet YOU are the only one here who regularly posts about the sexual exploitation of children. Why do you suppose you think about that all the time?

    • Truth Offends

      Are those ALL your words in your post, or are they the words of someone else? If they are not your words, who are you quoting?

      • garybryson

        quit playing your word games troll boy. abstracts only give a brief insight into the article. much to be learned from reading the entire article

    • Truth Offends

      I checked the 4 sources you provided for your claim that change therapy has been, according to you, “proven to be completely ineffective” and have “also been definitively shown to be dangerous.” The “abstracts” to those sources do NOT say what you claim.
      If you are going to make positive claims that something is “proven” or “definitively shown,” and cite sources that the abstracts show something different than what you claim–you should quote directly from the person who “proved” something or “definitively shown” something. Otherwise, your comments claiming something “proven” or “definitively shown” should be taken only as false.

      • Kyle

        Read the studies bub not just their abstracts, the risk factors that I listed are listed in the first 2 studies, the second two studies deal with the effectiveness (or lack thereof) of SOCE and the last study shows the dangers associated with rejecting LGBT youth. Fail better next time.

        • Truth Offends

          One can gather enough information from the abstracts to know that those studies do not at all “prove” change therapy “completely ineffective” or that they have been “definitively shown” to be “dangerous”. All those studies were based on participants’ PERCEPTIONS of the effectiveness/ineffectiveness of the therapy and the help/harm the therapy caused.

          I don’t want to pay to read the full studies, so which of the four studies you cite do you think are the ones that actually “prove” that change therapy is “completely ineffective”? And which of those studies do you think are the ones that have actually “shown definitively” that change therapy is “dangerous”? If you cannot say which studies do those things, then I would say it is to you(!) that the word “fail” applies–not me!

          • Kyle

            Oh deal lord the straw grasping is just so very wonderful to watch! Perhaps you could cite several studies proving effectiveness and no harm based on something other than participant perceptions? It’s a numbers game “Truth”, and the numbers are just not on your side on this one.

            Thankfully for LGBT teens, due to many recent studies confirming Shidlo & Schroeder’s findings, there is already movement underway within state licensing boards to ban this nonsense “therapy” for minors. It would seem that they agree with the science.

          • Truth Offends

            It sounds to me as if when you said that change therapy was “proven to be completely ineffective,” and that it has “been shown definitively to be dangerous”–you were just making that up. I understand. That’s something common among those (including “intellectuals”) who always cite “science” to supposedly support some absurd claim they make! Yes, they may cite sources, but then simply make-up what those sources actually say. Very sad.

          • Kyle

            Oh it sounds like that does it? Forgive me if I ignore your ridiculous assessment considering you haven’t even read any of the studies that I cited! Please try to fail better, this is far too easy.

          • Truth Offends

            You probably didn’t read the studies either. And, like I said, all one needs to do is read the abstracts to know that what you claimed is false. And, based on your last comment about “straw grasping,” it’s clear that you don’t even understand what it means to “prove” something, or to show something “definitively.” So, you can continue to make baseless claims and believe what you want. But, here’s a clue: Perceptions cannot prove anything except what those people perceive. And, for all we know, those same homosexuals may have a “mental disorder” and may “perceive” something completely apart from reality. After all, there was a time when the APA found homosexuals to have mental disorders, y’know!
            Oh, and here’s another clue: the first two studies you cited were done by the same people. The second one showed that only 42% perceived the therapy to be ineffective, and only 37% perceived the therapy to be harmful. Hardly something “proven” or “definitive”!

          • Kyle

            The second study I cited was a survey of ex-ex-gay individuals, the therapy didn’t work for any of them. Of course it doesn’t work for anyone, so that’s hardly surprising.

          • Truth Offends

            Yes. My mistake. It was the 4th study that said those things, not the second. Nevertheless, none(!) of the studies you cited “proved” the therapy is “completely ineffective,” and none of the studies you cited “showed definitively” that the therapy is “dangerous.” But, that’s what you said–with absolute certainty.
            I hope you never have to stand trial before a jury of your peers–people like you who have no understanding of what it means to “prove” something or to show something “definitively”.
            BTW: The first two studies, of course, could not “study” whether the therapy works or not b/c they did not “survey” any who claimed it did work–they only surveyed those who said it didn’t work!

          • Kyle

            Oh, you mean the study which found that “less than 4% reported any modification of core same-sex erotic attraction”? You’re running out of straws “truth”.

          • Truth Offends

            If anyone is “running out of straws” it’s you(!), not me.
            If 65 of about 1600 people experienced change–that’s NOT “completely ineffective” as you wrongly claimed!
            And that’s the study, I mean “survey” that showed only 42% perceived the therapy to be ineffective (less than half of those surveyed), and only 37% perceived the therapy to be harmful. Hardly something “proven” or “definitive”!

          • Kyle

            And if you had actually read the study you might know what that “change” or modification as the study puts it, actually entailed. Most of the 4% we’re already bisexual prior to seeking out SOCE, the actual “change” itself was extremely minimal and was neither “unequivocal” or “uncomplicated” a common answer to questions like “do you still feel same-sex attraction” was “yes, if I allow my mind to go there”. I.e. they’re still bisexual!

            37% reported harm isn’t a figure which should be prefixed with “only”.

          • Truth Offends

            None of what you say in your comment above changes the fact that you wrongly stated that change therapy has been “proven to be completely ineffective” and that such therapy has “been definitively shown to be dangerous.” Your claims are FALSE. Period.

          • Kyle

            4% “modification” which turns out to not actually be change at all with a side of 37% harm, yeah way to hitch your horse to that gem!

          • Kyle

            If a drug was only partially effective in about 4% of patients and caused harm in 37% do you think it would be banned or allowed on the market? All your straws are gone now “truth”… Oops!

          • Truth Offends

            You wrongly stated as a matter of fact that change therapy was “proven” to be “completely ineffective,” and that such therapy was “shown definitively to be dangerous”. Your statements are completely baseless claims. Period.

            You made a false statements. You should be mature enough to admit your errors instead of trying to change the subject by trying to focus on me. But, maybe you’re still a child. You sure act like one.

            BTW: Drug therapy is not at all the same thing as counseling.
            The FDA does not rely on one study to decide whether to approve a drug. And, the FDA does not rely on people’s “perceptions” of the effectiveness or harm of the drug!

          • Kyle

            I did not make an error. Not one single person in any of the studies I cited changed their sexual attractions from exclusively homosexual to exclusively heterosexual. The research shows that the therapy doesn’t work, it doesn’t do what it claims to be able to do and it harms a lot of people.

            I’m not the child here, nor am I the one grasping at straws.

          • John R

            All a person needs is common sense to know you can’t change your sexual orientation. Many have tried. All have failed.

          • Clive Johnson

            The thought occurred to me and I’m sure to others that this bogus therapy might move underground. Reparative therapists might start to systematically lie to insurance companies for reimbursement. Bible colleges might start graduating pastors with more therapy experience in order to use “pastoral counseling” to skirt the law. We need to be vigilant about this.

          • John R

            It does not work. Why is that so hard for you to understand?

      • John R

        Oh please. No one needs any studies ineffective or not to know that no therapy in the world will change a persons sexual orientation. Hello. This is a like common sense stuff. A no brainier.
        It would also help if you people would once and for all shut up about homosexuality being wrong. For then there world be no so called therapy since you would not be calling it unwanted same sex attraction. We are who we are. Straight or gay. Deal with it and stop your lies.

        • Truth Offends

          I don’t lie. If you’re going to (wrongly) accuse me of telling “lies,” the least you could do is show where you think I did do that. But you won’t (and can’t) do that b/c I did not do what you wrongly accuse me of doing.

          • John R

            Oh please, everything you say on here is a lie.

          • Truth Offends

            You can’t find a single one, huh?

          • John R

            Whatever. I am so sick and tired of you anti gay nuts. Just get it thru your head once and for all, homosexuality is not a sin. End of discussion.

  • Pingback: One Good Thing The Supreme Court Did For Gay Rights Today | Omar Faruk Blog

  • OnlyMyHumbleOpinion

    Where did all the bigots go? This place has gotten boring. Great discussion on infowars dot com thought, on this issue….

    • Clive Johnson

      Hoarding food and ammo in preparation for the End Times where Kenyan Marxists will be escorting True Christians (TM) to FEMA concentration camps for re-education into the “homosexual lifestyle”?

  • garybryson

    Honey, you’re not nasty…you’re just entertainment. your ignorance is typical of pseudo christians on this site. keep up the good work as you only make the other side look all that much better.

  • Michex

    No psychological or talk therapies, whether they work or not, could be harmful or not, are banned in America. That is not how therapy works.

    Homosexuals want to start the bans. They stick their noses into everything, and I mean EVERYTHING.

    • ErickMN

      Translation: “Wah, wah, wah, those mean homosexuals make me SO mad!”

    • John R

      Bottom line is that this type of therapy does not work and that is a proven fact. No person ever has changed their sexual orientation. You are what you are. Move on.

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