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Gay Christian?

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I want to say right off the bat that I am not sitting here writing this as a seminary educated theologian, minister, or even an “ex-gay” spokesperson. I am writing this blog as a real person…. a person who has lived on both sides of the “gay debate.” I’ve walked in the shoes of the one who is angry at Christians, fearful of the Church, and unable to connect the dots as to why their God hates homosexuality. And now I walk in the shoes of the very person I used to mock— the person who loves Jesus, turns from things He hates, and desires for others to do the same.

So many well-meaning Christians have no idea where to begin in talking to gay people about Jesus or how to apply the gospel to that person’s experience. I am in a unique situation – a situation where I understand both the experience of the gay person and what Jesus can do in the life of the gay person (no… I’m not talking about sexual re-orientation!). I write about this issue to both give experiential insight and try to help to answer the big questions of those who genuinely want to reach their gay friends with the gospel. 

Probably one of the biggest questions floating around in the blogosphere — and in many minds in the church pews on Sundays - today is: “Can a gay person be a Christian?” 

I shared the gospel with a coworker a few months back and her initial response (not even knowing my past/testimony) was, “Well what about gay people? Christianity says that’s wrong and I just don’t see how that can be wrong.” Can a gay person also be a Christian? Well, it first depends on what you mean when saying the word gay. Modern sexual terminology allows room for all sorts of misconceptions, so I want to clearly identify what we’re talking about when we say the word gay. The most common use of the word describes someone who not only experiences romantic attraction toward the same gender, but embraces this attraction toward the same gender as something good and natural, and consequently acts out on their attractions. Since this is the most common use of the word, this is the definition of “gay” that I’m going to go with in this blog.

At the risk of being repetitious, let me say it again: When I say “gay”, I do not mean someone who just experiences romantic attraction toward the same sex—I mean someone who embraces those attractions as a good part of who they are and acts out on those attractions.

What I will say first about the self-identified Gay Christian is that at the very least they are professing a genuine intellectual belief in the true God. The God who made us all, knows us all, and communicates the reality of His existence to us all. He is the One True God who, in the Person of His Son, took on flesh and stepped into our fractured world to make peace by the blood of His Cross. He is the God who died for sinners, welcomes sinners, and transforms sinners. His grace is overflowing. His mercy is incomprehensible. But….in all these wonderful things about God, it’s easy for us to think that His saving love knows no boundariesIf we go back to the Bible, we will see that God’s saving love does have boundaries… or a better word: conditions. And those conditions can be summed up in two things: repentance, and faith in Jesus Christ. The Bible defines legitimate faith as being characterized by a life of repentance – a life of trusting God, putting sin to death, and walking in step with the Spirit (walking as Jesus walked). Sinful men are saved by grace through faith (Ephesians 2:8), and that faith produces a life of repentance (James 2:20). True faith holds the hand of repentance – always.

Matthew Vines and everyone else like him can argue all they want that the traditional interpretation of the Bible on homosexuality is faulty, etcetera, etcetera. But at the end of the day, Scripture — even in its original languages and the cultural contexts of the time of its writing — is clear as day that homosexual behavior falls into the category of sin and that a person who has faith in Jesus is a person who also turns from sin. So what does this mean for the person who says they have faith in Jesus but does not turn from what He defines as sin?

I think I know what Jesus might say.

“Why do you call me ‘Lord, Lord,’ and not do what I tell you?”- Luke 6:46

“You will recognize them by their fruits. Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven.”- Matthew 7:20-21

“Unless you repent, you will perish.”- Luke 13:5

Sobering words. Before I go any further I want to be blatantly clear with the gay person or professing gay Christian reading these words… I do love you. Not in a fake, ooshy-gooshy kind of way. I don’t know you…. so I don’t love you like I love my mom or my sister or my friends. When I say I love you, I mean that I genuinely care for you and your soul, and for your struggles in your sexuality and identity that not many people out there understand. Everything I say from this point forward is from a loving desire to see your heart opened to the truths (hard truths) about God, yourself, and your need for redemption and transformation.

If you are currently a self-identified “Gay Christian,” I plead with you to feel the danger and urgency of the situation you’re in. Jesus’ apostles warn that God’s will is for us to abstain from sexual immorality (1 Thessalonians 4:3) and that those who refuse to abstain will not inherit the Kingdom of God (1 Cortinthians 6:9) because they have not done the will of the Father (Matthew 7:21). If the person I just described would be you, then I need to tell you that you are currently under the wrath of God because of your unbelief (John 3:36)… and if you continue on this path, you will experience the torment of His wrath forever (Revelation 14:11). If you do not turn to Christ with a true heart of humility and faith, and stop pursuing the sinful desires of your heart, God will condemn you and He will be just in condemning you. Not because you’re attracted to the same sex, but because you have exalted yourself, your sexuality and your reasoning above the God who made you and cares for you and offers salvation to you.

Please don’t bank the fate of your eternity on the fact that you feel like you’re good with God or you feel like He blesses your monogamous, committed relationship with someone of the same sex. The fallen, sinful human heart is desperately wicked (Jeremiah 17:9) and can not be trusted.  If you feel good participating in what God reveals in His Word to be sin, please don’t take that to mean that it isn’t sin.  One of the scariest things God can do is to give us over to our sin and allow us to revel in it and experience no sense of guilt or shame. This path of embracing, celebrating and loving sin is the wide, easy path that Jesus assures us ends in destruction (Matthew 7:13).

Please don’t’ continue to harden your heart against what you know somewhere deep inside of you to be true. Humble yourself. Turn from your sin and follow Jesus! Become a recipient of His saving grace and He will transform you – not necessarily into into a person who is attracted to the opposite sex. That is not the promise of the Gospel. The promise of the Gospel is that what Jesus has done on your behalf is sufficient to clear you of your guilt before God, free you from the power of sin, and free you to know Jesus Christ and enjoy Him forever.

 I do know men and women who have (after turning to Christ and pressing in to know Him more on a daily basis) developed somewhat of an attraction for the opposite sex. But there are many, like myself, who haven’t had that happen. But despite my lack of the heterosexual attraction some people think I need to experience “fulfillment”, I have more joy and peace in my life  than I have ever had. And that joy increases year after year. Why? Because I am walking in [imperfect] obedience to Christ. I am putting sin to death, seeking the Lord in prayer and His Word, and He is letting Himself be found by me (2 Chronicles 15:2). Jesus has transformed me—not into a so-called “straight” man, but into a man who’s very life, meaning and joy springs from knowing and walking with Jesus Christ. My hope is not in a temporal change in my sexuality, but in an eternal promise that Jesus has saved me and will lead me into a life of indescribable pleasure forever. <—-This is the hope of the gospel

What the Lord has done for me and countless other “gay” people He will gladly do for you. It’s not too late and you’re not too far gone — don’t listen to that voice in your head for a second. Jesus took upon Himself the wrath of God for sinners—sexually broken, stubborn and prideful sinners — just like you and me. All of your sin, including all the years of justifying your sin and refusing to repent, can be nailed to the Cross and forgotten by God forever if you will just repent and trust in His provision in Jesus Christ. He will then not only clothe you with the righteousness of Jesus and declare you righteous in a legal sense, but He will also treat you as if you were righteous. He will treat you as if you had obeyed as Jesus did. Please don’t harden your heart — but believe.

“The Lord, the Lord, a God merciful and gracious, slow to anger, and abounding in steadfast love and faithfulness, keeping steadfast love for thousands, forgiving iniquity and transgression and sin, but who will by no means clear the guilty…” (Exodus 34:6-7).

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  • stlouisix

    Is It Possible To Be Christian And To Be Gay? – The Answer From A Catholic Perspective

    The question needs to be reposed per 1) what being “gay” typically means in contemporary usage as defined in Webster’s, i.e., “homosexual, one who is inclined toward or practices homosexuality, the manifestation of sexual desire toward a member of one’s own sex, and erotic activity with a member of one’s own sex,” and 2) what being “Christian” typically means, i.e., “based on or conforming with Christianity, the religion derived from Jesus Christ, based on the Bible as Sacred Scripture.”

    First of all, there is nothing “gay” about being inclined to acts that when accurately described cause feelings of extreme revulsion!

    Is it possible to be Christian and be inclined to homosexual acts? The answer is yes as there is no guarantee that Christians are not tempted to sin. It is better to
    ask, “Is it possible to remain a Christian and live a lifestyle that equates sexual perversion with normality?” The answer is an unequivocal no. For to do so makes a mockery of Sacred Scripture which states emphatically that Jesus condemns the sin out of concern for the sinner’s eternal end. The same “good and gentle” Jesus who is readily quoted out of context by the contemporary disciples of “dignity” and “self esteem” also is the “just” Jesus who talked more about the consequences of grave sin than any other New Testament figure. He was especially discriminatory in this regard as while some ceremonial aspects of the old law were rescinded, the moral requirements were not.

    Think not that I am come to destroy the law or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfill. For amen, I say unto you, till Heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall not pass from the law, till all be fulfilled. Whosoever, therefore, shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of Heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach, he shall be called great in the kingdom of Heaven. For I say to you, that unless your justice abound more than that of the Scribes and of the Pharisees, you shall not enter into the kingdom of Heaven. (Matthew
    5:17-20)

    But he that shall scandalize one of these little ones that believe in me, it were
    better for him that a mill-stone were hanged about his neck, and that he were
    drowned in the depth of the sea. Woe to the world because of scandals. For it
    must needs be that scandals come: but, nevertheless woe to that man by whom the scandal cometh. And if thy hand of thy foot scandalize thee, cut it off, and cast it from thee. It is better for thee to enter into life maimed or lame, than having two hands or two feet, to be cast into everlasting fire. And if thy eye scandalize thee, pluck it out, and cast it from thee. It is better for thee with one eye to enter into life, than having two eyes to be cast into hell fire. (Matthew 18:6-9)

    It is an oxymoronic contention that you can be “gay” and “Christian”. This is a
    violation of a fundamental philosophical principle in that “Something cannot ‘be’ and ‘not be’ at the same time in the same respect.” The Church’s clear teaching is that there is nothing “gay” about being inclined to proven self-destructive physically, psychologically, and especially spiritually, unnatural behavior that has also been proven to be changeable, i.e., there is no such thing as a homosexual orientation in an innate final sense. Such inclinations are to acts which the Church considers intrinsic moral evils, the inclination itself being objectively disordered because of the unnatural tendencies involved. To say otherwise is absurd!

    This is not a question of exclusion but rather one of unconditional love for man’s salvific eternal end that demands telling the Truth, Who is a Someone, not a something, per the beginning of the Gospel of John.

    Christians, above all clerics, ought to realize that by lying to people who need the full truth does nothing to help them. And it is a lie to have someone believe that
    they can be Christian and have no problems with being inclined to acts, which
    if performed, lead to final spiritual ruin. That is playing with fire. The Church calls those inclined to homosexuality to leave, not live, their lifestyles. In order to do that the Church cannot lie about such inclinationsbeing benign naturally, and especially spiritually, given the eternal truth of the Natural Law of God which is a participation in His Eternal Law.

    Would so-called “Christian” apologists for the homosexual lifestyle have us believe that Matthew 5:21-31 excuses any responsibility for living it because
    homosexuality is not explicitly referred to?

    “You have heard that it was said to the men of old, ‘You shall not kill; and whoever kills shall be liable to judgment.’ But I say to you that every one who is
    angry with his brother shall be liable to judgment; whoever insults his brother
    shall be liable to the council, and whoever says ‘You fool!’ shall be liable to
    the hell of fire….You have heard that it was said, ‘You shall not commit
    adultery.’ But I say to you that everyone who looks at a woman lustfully has
    already committed adultery with her in his heart…It is better that you lose
    one of your members than that your whole body go into hell.”

    It most certainly is. In particular, see Genesis 18:20-21, Romans 1:24-28, and the
    Epistle of Jude. Moreover, Jesus took the old law one step further and made the
    actions leading to the act as severe as the act itself. Are we to believe as
    Christians that somehow homosexuality fell through the cracks in Sacred Scripture? Thus, from the Christian standpoint, to imply that Jesus never said
    anything about being inclined to unnatural acts is Bible eisegesis with the
    consequences of Matthew 18:6.

    To give a message to those inclined to homosexual acts that “they are OK as they are” is un-Christian in the extreme given the above observations. It makes
    no more sense than to tell an alcoholic that you may continue drinking to get
    over alcoholism. Moreover, it is akin to giving a serial killer more bullets.

    The Magdalenes of the Gospel were most certainly forgiven, but the words of Jesus following His forgiveness are conveniently forgotten. “Go and sin no more.”
    That is what it means to be Christian. To make the attempt to live a Faith which will be mocked by the world. To imply that the homosexual lifestyle somehow has a Christian blessing is tragic. It is tragic because souls are at stake – those living the lie and, especially, those telling it. For Christians, that’s NOT love but REAL hate for their fellow man.

    Lest we forget, Jesus Christ exists eternally as Second Person of the Blessed Trinity of the One True Triune God, i.e., as God Jesus destroyed Sodom and Gomorrah, which is the first thing that should be remembered when the heinous lie that “Jesus never had anything to say about homosexuality” rears its ugly heads via the disciples of the devil! We are talking about a proven changeable lifestyle with the Grace of God that is physically, psychologically, socially, economically, and most especially spiritually ruinous!

    As the late Professor of Philosophy at Notre Dame, Ralph McInerny, in Catholic Dossier pointed out, obfuscation has reached the college campuses and campaigns are waged against something called “homophobia,” the net effect of which is to suggest that it is the judgment that homosexual acts are sinful that is sinful, not the acts themselves. In this effort, Scripture and magisterial documents are invoked as if they favored homosexuality as erroneously implied in many college editorials. One has a Christian duty, it seems, not to state the Christian message on the matter. During campus campaigns to give recognition to homosexual organizations, no mention is ever made of the serious health dangers that follow homosexual activity. And this on “smoke-free” campuses. Now it is the consequences of the vice that dare not speak their name.

    Lenience toward homosexuality is only an aspect of the Dionysian frenzy that characterizes talk of human sexuality. Human persons need the sane and saving doctrine of the Christian witness on homosexuality today more than ever. To give a stone where bread is asked for is unkind. The Church’s mission is not to conform to the world, but to stand in contradiction to it in order to save it.

    • Ray – Jesus is the Son of God.

      POPE SAYS SINCERE ATHEISTS WILL GO TO HEAVEN

      Author: David Cloud

      In an open letter to a newspaper editor, Pope Francis says that sincere atheists will be accepted by God. Writing to Eugenio Scalfari, founder of La Repubblica, the pope said: “You ask me if the God of the Christians forgives those who don’t believe and who don’t seek the faith. I start by saying–and this is the fundamental thing–that God’s mercy has no limits if you go to him with a sincere and contrite heart. The issue for those who do not believe in God is to obey their conscience” (“Pope to Atheists: See You Upstairs,”National Post , Canada, Sept. 12, 2013). This statement made big news, but there is nothing here that evangelicals have not been saying for decades. In fact, this is yet another way in which Roman Catholics and evangelicals are “coming together.” It is another aspect of the building of the end-time, one-world “church.” The book More Than One Way, published in 1996 by Zondervan, offered “four views on salvation in a pluralistic world,” and three of those views offer hope for those who do not personally trust in Jesus Christ. In his 2011 book Love Wins , “evangelical” Rob Bell taught that atheists can be saved without being born again. Richard Mouw, President of Fuller Theological Seminary, told USA Today that “Rob Bell’s Love Wins is a fine book and that I basically agree with his theology” (“The Orthodoxy of Rob Bell,” Christian Post , Mar. 20, 2011). For decades Billy Graham has been saying that it is possible for someone to be saved without personal faith in Jesus Christ, and there has been no outcry from evangelicalism, including from Graham’s own denomination, the Southern Baptist Convention. In an interview with McCall’s magazine, January 1978, entitled “I Can’t Play God Any More,” Graham said: “I used to believe that pagans in far-off countries were lost–were going to hell–if they did not have the Gospel of Jesus Christ preached to them. I no longer believe that. … I believe that there are other ways of recognizing the existence of God–through nature, for instance–and plenty of other opportunities, therefore, of saying ‘yes’ to God.” Graham repeated this sentiment in interviews in 1985, 1993, and 1997.

      • no more mr. nice guy

        We are taught: “If you love me, keep my Commandments.” This means all of the 10 Commandments not just a cherry-picked few.
        God didn’t say: “If you love me, obey your conscience”. Every evil known to man can be justified by citing conscience.
        The first [and the most important Commandment ] states: “I am the Lord thy God, thou shalt not have strange Gods before me”!
        The only thing worse than “strange Gods” is no God at all. That’s paganism on steroids. Impenitent practicing atheists can’t be forgiven because they don’t believe in “the” God who can forgive and because they aren’t sorry for having disbelief in “the” God who can forgive.
        Those who say otherwise [including the Pretend Pope] are basically saying that God said what he meant but he didn’t really mean what he said. And that mortal man can tell “the” immortal God that he misstated what he never really said.
        The insolence and arrogance of man knows no bounds. And we wonder why we suffer!

      • OnlyMyHumbleOpinion

        The only salvation comes from Christ alone.

    • OnlyMyHumbleOpinion

      If you’re going to plagiarize someone else’s work, give them credit at least. I’m sure Gary Morella would have appreciated it. Let’s be Christians in how we post, please.

  • Ray – Jesus is the Son of God.

    2 Timothy 2:19
    Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his. And, Let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity.

    • OnlyMyHumbleOpinion

      Amen. But irrelevant to this article.

      • QuadGMoto

        On the point of homosexuality, the Scriptures are very, very clear:

        So God created man in his own image,

        in the image of God he created him;

        male and female he created them.

        And God blessed them. And God said to them, “Be fruitful and multiply and fill the earth and subdue it, and have dominion over the fish of the sea and over the birds of the heavens and over every living thing that moves on the earth.”

        — Genesis 1:27–28

        Obeying this command is only possible in heterosexual marriage.

        “But from the beginning of creation, ‘God made them male and female.’ ‘Therefore a man shall leave his father and mother and hold fast to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh.’ So they are no longer two but one flesh.”

        — Mark 10:6–8

        And he said, “What comes out of a person is what defiles him. For from within, out of the heart of man, come evil thoughts, sexual immorality, theft, murder, adultery, coveting, wickedness, deceit, sensuality, envy, slander, pride, foolishness. All these evil things come from within, and they defile a person.”

        — Mark 7:20–23

        Here is where part of that definition of “sexual immorality” comes from:

        You shall not lie with a male as with a woman; it is an abomination.

        “Do not make yourselves unclean by any of these things, for by all these the nations I am driving out before you have become unclean, and the land became unclean, so that I punished its iniquity, and the land vomited out its inhabitants.

        — Leviticus 18:22, 24–25

        If a man lies with a male as with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination; they shall surely be put to death; their blood is upon them.

        And you shall not walk in the customs of the nation that I am driving out before you, for they did all these things, and therefore I detested them.

        — Leviticus 20:13, 23

        Notice that in both these instances, God punished the people the Israelites were to drive out because they committed these sins (not just homosexuality). That means it is a moral issue that applies to all humanity, not just the nation of Israel.

        For this reason God gave them up to dishonorable passions. For their women exchanged natural relations for those that are contrary to nature; and the men likewise gave up natural relations with women and were consumed with passion for one another, men committing shameless acts with men and receiving in themselves the due penalty for their error.

        — Romans 1:26–27

        Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: neither the sexually immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor men who practice homosexuality, nor thieves, nor the greedy, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God. And such were some of you. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God.

        “All things are lawful for me,” but not all things are helpful. “All things are lawful for me,” but I will not be dominated by anything. “Food is meant for the stomach and the stomach for food”—and God will destroy both one and the other. The body is not meant for sexual immorality, but for the Lord, and the Lord for the body. And God raised the Lord and will also raise us up by his power. Do you not know that your bodies are members of Christ? Shall I then take the members of Christ and make them members of a prostitute? Never! Or do you not know that he who is joined to a prostitute becomes one body with her? For, as it is written, “The two will become one flesh.” But he who is joined to the Lord becomes one spirit with him. Flee from sexual immorality. Every other sin a person commits is outside the body, but the sexually immoral person sins against his own body. Or do you not know that your body is a temple of the Holy Spirit within you, whom you have from God? You are not your own, for you were bought with a price. So glorify God in your body.

        Now concerning the matters about which you wrote: “It is good for a man not to have sexual relations with a woman.” But because of the temptation to sexual immorality, each man should have his own wife and each woman her own husband. The husband should give to his wife her conjugal rights, and likewise the wife to her husband. For the wife does not have authority over her own body, but the husband does. Likewise the husband does not have authority over his own body, but the wife does.

        — 1 Corinthians 6:9–7:4

        Let us walk properly as in the daytime, not in orgies and drunkenness, not in sexual immorality and sensuality, not in quarreling and jealousy. But put on the Lord Jesus Christ, and make no provision for the flesh, to gratify its desires.

        — Romans 13:13–14

        just as Sodom and Gomorrah and the surrounding cities, which likewise indulged in sexual immorality and pursued unnatural desire, serve as an example by undergoing a punishment of eternal fire.

        — Jude 1:7

        • OnlyMyHumbleOpinion

          Your misinterpretation of scripture does not make it fact, my friend.

          • QuadGMoto

            That’s almost all quoting. Only twice do I “interpret”, and in both cases the text is not at all obscure or difficult.

            What is difficult about words like “man”, “woman”, “husband”, and “wife”?

          • OnlyMyHumbleOpinion

            Those words are fine. Its when you mention homosexual that things get less scripturally sound.

          • PropheticExplorer

            Scripture is crystal clear on homosexuality to everyone who doesn’t have a vested interest in pretending it isn’t:

            For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature: And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet.
            Romans 1:26-27 (KJV)

          • PropheticExplorer

            The fascinating thing is gonna be watching you trying to convince God of this on judgment day. Unlike men on this earth He can see your wicked heart and knows you know the truth. Just because you reject the truth doesn’t make it any less true.

          • OnlyMyHumbleOpinion

            That verse speaks about heterosexuals having gay sex. They were exchanging their natural desires (heterosexual) for desires that were not natural for them (homosexual). Paul’s point. Straight men shouldn’t have gay sex. And gay men shouldn’t have heterosexual sex. You are correct that scripture is crystal clear on this.

          • QuadGMoto

            They were exchanging their natural desires (heterosexual) for desires that were not natural for them (homosexual).

            For this reason God gave them up to dishonorable passions. For their women exchanged natural relations for those that are contrary to nature; and the men likewise gave up natural relations with women and were consumed with passion for one another, men committing shameless acts with men and receiving in themselves the due penalty for their error.
            — Romans 1:26–27

            I’m having a really hard time finding the word “their” in that passage related to “nature”, such that it could mean “their nature”. Could you point it out for me?

          • OnlyMyHumbleOpinion

            Take off your bigotry glasses. God’s word will start to make a lot more sense….

          • QuadGMoto

            You’re dodging. Where is the word or phrase that carries the meaning “their nature” in Romans 1:26-27?

            If your “interpretation” is accurate, then you should have no trouble pointing it out.

          • OnlyMyHumbleOpinion

            I didn’t dodge. Your question made no sense. I ignore those.

          • QuadGMoto

            Your claim: In Romans 1, Paul is saying that people are going against their nature.

            My point: “Their nature” is not in Romans 1. It is just “nature”. You are adding a word which is not there in order to change Paul’s meaning.

            That is willful misinterpretation. The scholarly term is “eisegesis”, the opposite of exegesis. It is always illegitimate. If you actually want to learn about this, go to gotquestions dot org and find the article “What is the difference between exegesis and eisegesis?”

          • PropheticExplorer

            OMG you’re delusional.

          • OnlyMyHumbleOpinion

            Typical. When you can’t refute an argument, start calling names.

          • vorpal

            Unlike the good, sound mental health of the far-right Christians that comprise this forum, right?

          • QuadGMoto

            The New International Commentary on the New Testament has some very useful explanations of Romans 1:26-27:

            26 In many Jewish polemical works, the gross sexual immorality that the Jews found rampant among the Gentiles was traced directly to idolatry. Thus, to cite Wisdom of Solomon: “the idea of making idols was the beginning of fornication, and the invention of them was the corruption of life” (14:12). Paul follows this genre by making the same connection but differs from it by attributing the connection to the act of God. As in vv. 23–24, people’s “exchange” of the true God for idols (v. 25) is the cause of God’s retributive “handing them over.” And that to which they are handed over, “dishonorable passions,” here corresponds to the “uncleanness” of v. 24. Paul’s use of the word “passions,” combined with what he says in vv. 26b–27, makes clear that he refers to illicit sexual passions. For the last clause of the verse illustrates these “dishonorable passions.” In yet another similarity to Jewish criticisms of the Gentile world, the sexual sin that Paul singles out is homosexuality: “women exchanged the natural use of their bodies for that use which is against nature.” The verb “exchange,” which has been used twice to depict the fall into idolatry (vv. 23, 25), is now used to characterize this tragic reversal in sexual practice. The “natural use” has been replaced with one that is “against nature.”

            The extent to which Paul characterizes this exchange as a violation of God’s created order depends on the significance of the words “natural” and “nature” in this verse. Paul generally uses the word “nature” to describe the way things are by reason of their intrinsic state or birth, and in these cases there is no clear reference to divine intention. Some scholars in recent years especially, noting this, have argued that Paul does not here brand homosexuality as a violation of God’s will. He is only, they argue, following his own cultural prejudices by characterizing homosexual relations as being against what is “usually” the case. But Paul’s use of the word “nature” in this verse probably owes much to Jewish authors, particularly Philo, who included sexual morality as part of “natural law” and therefore as a divine mandate applicable to all people. Violations of this law, as in the case of Sodom, are therefore considered transgressions of God’s will. In keeping with the biblical and Jewish worldview, the heterosexual desires observed normally in nature are traced to God’s creative intent. Sexual sins that are “against nature” are also, then, against God, and it is this close association that makes it probable that Paul’s appeal to “nature” in this verse includes appeal to God’s created order. Confirmation can be found in the context. In labeling the turning from “the natural use” to “that [use] which is against nature” an “exchange,” Paul associates homosexuality with the perversion of true knowledge of God already depicted in vv. 23 and 25. In addition, we must remember that the clause in question is a description of “sinful passions,” a phrase plainly connoting activities that are contrary to God’s will. When these factors are considered, it is clear that Paul depicts homosexual activity as a violation of God’s created order, another indication of the departure from true knowledge and worship of God.

            27 This verse is connected to the last part of v. 26 with “likewise,” as Paul shows that the same “sinful passions” that lead women to engage in unnatural homosexual acts are also operative among men, with similar effect. Homosexuality among “males,” like that among “females,” is characterized as a departure from nature. As in the previous verse, “nature” denotes the natural order, but as reflective of God’s purposes. Paul uses strong language to characterize male homosexuality: “they burned in their desire for one another, men with men doing that which is shameful and receiving in themselves the just penalty that was necessary for their error.” In calling the homosexual activity that brings about this penalty an “error,” Paul does not diminish the seriousness of the offense, for this word often denotes sins of unbelievers in the NT. In claiming that this penalty for homosexual practice is received “in themselves,” Paul may suggest that the sexual perversion itself is the punishment. On the other hand, this could be a vivid way of saying that those who engage in such activities will suffer eternal punishment; they will receive “in their own persons” God’s penalty for violation of his will. This punishment, Paul says, was “necessary,” by which he probably means that God could not allow his created order to be so violated without there being a just punishment.

            — Douglas J. Moo, The Epistle to the Romans (New International Commentary on the New Testament; Eerdmans, 1996), 113-117.

          • OnlyMyHumbleOpinion

            You are part right. Did you notice what the POINT of that commentary was? Idolatry. In the old testament, the word abomination is always tied to idolatry. When you put something above God, he calls it an abomination. The people in Paul’s time (backed by your quoted commentary) had a problem with idolatry. There were many good things that people would put above God, like hetertosexual intercourse, which then, would be idolatrous.

            I’m glad you brought this subject up, because it proves my point exactly. What you think the Bible is condemning is not obvious in some cases, until you consider where idolatry rampant.

            As it relates to these guy’s suggesting the Bible is talking about homosexuality, you will notice the date of this non-scriptural reference: 1996.

          • QuadGMoto

            A) You apparently cannot read.

            B) RE: “[Y]ou will notice the date…”

            That is a logical fallacy known as “Appeal to Novelty”. (Look it up.)

          • QuadGMoto

            Once again, someone trying to drag me away from Scripture does not fit the definition of “friend”.

          • OnlyMyHumbleOpinion

            I wish you would TURN TO scripture instead of misinterpreting it.

          • QuadGMoto

            So quoting vast swaths isn’t enough for you? (Nvm, I know the answer to that one.)

          • OnlyMyHumbleOpinion

            Good, that saved me from wasting time typing it again.

          • vorpal

            Christian love at work, as always. You can really feel the goodness of Christ in all of your nasty words.

          • QuadGMoto

            Holding on to sin condemns someone to hell. I’m arguing in favor of turning from sin to Christ so that anyone who does so can go to heaven. How is that “nasty”?

          • vorpal

            No matter how good your intentions may be, the way that you deliver your message matters, and the people here may as well deliver their message by screaming it while stabbing gay people in the eye with a fork. It would be more respectful and less hateful and nasty than what is done here.

          • QuadGMoto

            Yeah, I do get sarcastic sometimes. I admit that. Of course, it’s hard not to in the face of overt hostility and denials of even the simplest facts.

            Most of the time I try to stick to “these are the facts” type arguments. Of course, that sounds like hate to those who hate those facts.

          • PropheticExplorer

            I <3 it when people quote scripture directly from the bible and are accused of 'misquoting' the bible :o)

          • OnlyMyHumbleOpinion

            The word “homosexuality” did not appear in the English Bible until 1946. Its addition was a mistake and is a misinterpretation of scripture.

          • QuadGMoto

            Since when do developments in English change the meaning of Greek? Answer: It doesn’t!

            arsēn, male; thēlys, female; arsenokoitēs, male homosexual, pederast, sodomite.

            CL arsēn occurs in cl. Gk. from Homer onwards, sometimes in the Attic form arrēn (often in papyri, and also Philo, Josephus and Rom. 1:27 v.l.). (On the form see Funk ß 34 (2); Moulton, Grammar, II, 103.) It means male as opposed to female, thēlys (cf. Plato, Leg. 2, 9 p. 665c; K. Preisendanz, Papyri Graecae Magicae, I, 1928, 15, 18). thēlys is also found from Homer onwards as an adj. meaning female, but also with the art. meaning woman (e.g. Hdt. 3, 109; Xen., Mem. 2, 1, 4). On the phrase arsēn kai thēlys, male and female, cf. Plato, Rep. 454d; Aristot., Met. 988a 5.

            OT arsēn occurs some 54 times in the LXX [Septuagint] canonical and uncanonical writings, chiefly for the Heb. zākār. It appears in the phrase arsen kai thēly, male and female, in Gen. 1:27 (Heb. zākār ûneqēbâh) of the creation of male and female in the image of God (cf. also Gen. 5:2; 6:19 f.; 7:2 f., 9, 15 f.; Lev. 3:1, 6; 12:7, referring not only to man and woman but to the male and female of animal species in the flood story and in sacrifice). The male is referred to on his own in Gen. 17:14, 23 (the institution of male circumcision as the covenant sign); Exod. 1:16 ff., 22; 2:2 (Pharaoh’s attempt to exterminate the Israelites by destroying male infants); Exod. 12:5 (the Passover lamb had to be a male without blemish); and Lev. 1:3, 10; 4:23; 22:19; Mal. 1:14 (in connection with sacrifice); Lev. 6:29, 7:6 (of priests); Lev. 18:22; 20:13 (in condemnation of homosexual practices); Lev. 27:3, 5 ff. (in the valuation of the people); Num. 1:2; 3:40 (in the census of the people); Num. 31:17 f.; Jos. 17:2; Jdg. 21:11 f. (in historical narratives); Job 3:3; Isa. 26:14; 66:7; Jer. 20:15; 30:6; Sir. 33:26 (23); 2 Macc. 7:21; 4 Macc. 15:30 (of males generally). The references to the male and female correspond to those to man and woman generally in the OT. On the one hand, there is the recognition in Gen. of the divinely instituted parity in that man and woman together constitute the image of God, and their complementary roles in the transmission of life in both the human and the animal realm. On the other hand, there are certain roles (e.g. in receiving the covenant sign, in the priesthood, and in certain sacrifices) that only the male may fill.

            NT 1 The creative act in Gen. 1:27 is referred to in Matt. 19:4 par. Mk. 10:6 in connection with divorce. Jesus’ reply to the Pharisees takes it as the major premise for his teaching on marriage: “from the beginning he created them male and female.” This leads to the minor premise quoted from Gen. 2:24: “for this reason a man shall leave his father and mother [Matt. also gives ”and shall cleave to his wife“] and the two shall be one flesh” (Matt. 19:5; Mk. 10:7 f.). The conclusion is drawn: “So they are no longer two but one flesh. What therefore God put together, let not man put asunder” (Matt. 19:6; Mk. 10:8 f.). Gen. 1:27 is also referred to in 1 Clem. 33:5 and 2 Clem. 14:2.

            2 Lk. 2:23 tells how Jesus’ parents offered the sacrifice prescribed for males by Exod. 13:2, 12 at his birth (Bird).

            3 Paul’s use of arsēn is interesting in that it exhibits a tension between the creation ordinances and their abolition in the gospel age. By contrast the ungodly have abolished the creation ordinances for sexual relations in a way which can only bring judgment.

            (a) In Rom. 1:27 arsēn (v.l. arrēn) is used 3 times which RSV translates by “men”: “and the men likewise gave up natural relations with women and were consumed with passion for one another, men committing shameless acts with men and receiving in their own persons the due penalty for their error.” In this passage sexual perversion is seen as a result of (and to that extent as a judgment on) man’s sin in worshipping the creature rather than the creator. Because he has put something else in the place which can only properly belong to God, man’s natural relationships have become perverted. Josephus also pointed out that unnatural relations between males was punishable by death (Ap. 1, 199; cf. Lev. 20:13; 18:22, 29). On Rom. 1 generally, see G. Bornkamm, “The Revelation of God’s Wrath (Romans 1-3)”, Early Christian Experience, 1969, 47-70. Paul uses the noun arsenokoitēs, a male homosexual, pederast, sodomite (Marriage, art. koíth), as one who is excluded from the kingdom (1 Cor. 6:9) and condemned by the law (1 Tim. 1:10; cf. Gen. 19; Lev. 18:22, 29; 20:13; Deut. 23:17; Punishment).

            (b) On the other hand, Gal. 3:28 asserts that “There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free, there is neither male nor female; for you are all one in Christ Jesus.” This, however, is not a call to abolish all earthly relationships. Rather, it puts these relationships in the perspective of salvation history. As Paul goes on to say, “And if you are Christ’s then you are Abraham’s offspring, heirs according to promise” (Gal. 3:29; cf. also Rom. 10:2). All who are in Christ have the same status before God; but they do not necessarily have the same function. In the context of the circumcision question in Gal., the assertion is doubly relevant. For women could not be recipients of the sign which Judaizers were insisting as a prerequisite for full salvation. There may also be an underlying Adam-typology in the passage. Some rabbis asserted that Adam was originally androgynous (cf. J. Bligh, Galatians: A Discussion of St Paul’s Epistle, 1969, 326).

            4 Rev. 12:5, 13 takes up the imagery of Isa. 66:7 and Ps. 2:9 in the vision of the dragon’s attack on the woman with the male child: “she brought forth a male child, one who is to rule all the nations with a rod of iron, but her child was caught up to God and to his throne. . . . And when the dragon saw that he had been thrown down to the earth, he pursued the woman who had borne the male child.” Whereas the child is here clearly Christ, the woman, in the light of the following verses, represents the mother of Jesus and also the church whose other “offspring” are now pursued by the dragon.

            — “MAN,” New International Dictionary of New Testament Theology

            koitē, bed, marriage bed, intercourse.

            CL In secular Gk. koitē, besides its common meaning bed, connotes the marriage bed (Aeschylus, Sophocles). It was used also of the den of an animal or the nest of a bird as well as of a box or basket.

            OT In Wis. 3:13 the word is used in the phrase hētis ouk egnō koitēn en paraptōmati (“who has not known intercourse in transgression”) to describe an illicit union. In Wis. 3:16 koitē occurs in combination with sperma in a sense similar to the use of sikbat-zera‘ (lit. discharge of seed) in Heb. where the connotation is that of coitus (Lev. 15:18; 18:20; 19:20; Num. 5:13; cf. Lev. 15:16 f., 32; 22:4; see further below). The Greek expression is modified by paranomou (unlawful) to connote the concept of illicit sexual congress. In Sir. 23:18 v.l. the word koitē occurs in the phrase pornos parabainōn apo tēs koitēs autou to describe “a fornicator who strays from his marriage bed.”

            In the LXX [Septuagint] koitē stands for a number of Heb. words, most frequently forms of the verb sākab, lie down. It represents the noun miskāb on numerous occasions with the basic meaning of bed, as the place of sleep or rest (e.g. 2 Sam. 11:13; 1 Ki. 1:47; Mic. 2:1). In Exod. 10:23 koitē represents the Heb. tahat, place, in the context of the plague of darkness on Egypt. The expression is probably used more generally in the Heb. than the LXX allows, for the word tahat may denote a place of sitting as well as lying. In Daniel the word miskāb is represented by koitē in the LXX and, in each instance, refers to the bed as a place of rest. In Isa. 56:10 koitē is used in the sense of rest in the phrase enypniazomenoi koitēn, dreaming of rest.

            The word koitē stands for several Heb. words that connote the home of an animal such as the Heb. rēbes (Jer. 50:6) which means sheepfold. The word also represents the verbal form rābas in the phrase koitēn poimniōn, fold of flocks, in Isa. 17:2. In Isa. 11:8 koitē stands for the Heb. me’ûrâh which connotes the den of a snake, and in Mic. 2:12 it represents the Heb. dōber, pasture. The noun mā‘ôn, lair, is represented by koitē in Jer. 10:22. And the noun me‘ōnâh, dwelling, lair, is represented by koitē in Job 37:8; 38:40. The word koitē is used of the sick bed in the LXX as in Ex. 21:18 where it represents the Heb. miskāb. See also Job 33:19; Ps. 41:3.

            In the LXX [Septuagint] koitē also stands for the Heb. sekābâh. The Heb. word can connote the idea of layer or deposit as in a layer of dew (Exod. 16:13, 14) as well as the act of lying. The word occurs in the latter sense in the phrase sikbat-zera‘ (lit. “a laying of seed”), a technical term in the Levitical legislation used to refer to the emission of semen. In Lev. 15:18 the expression sikbat-zera‘ occurs as the cognate accusative of sākab, lie, in a section describing the means of cleansing in the case of sexual defilement. Literally the statement says “If a man should lie with a woman ‘a laying of semen,’” and thus describes the act of “laying” in the sense of completion of coition. A similar usage of the expression occurs in Lev. 19:20; Num. 5:13. The word sekābâh seems to have another connotation in the same expression, however, for it is used in Lev. 15:16, 17 of emission of semen apart from coitus in which instance the word seems to be used in the sense of “deposit,” hence emission. The concluding statement to this legislative section (Lev. 15:32) uses the phrase sikbat-zera‘ to cover both instances of emission. The expression is used similarly in Lev. 22:4.

            The word miskab is represented by koitē in the LXX [Septuagint] in a number of instances where the connotation is that of bed in the sense of a place of rest but with associative sexual implications deriving from Levitical regulations relating to various forms of sexual impurity (Lev. 15:21, 23, 24, 26). In Prov. 7:17 the word is used of the harlot’s bed thus connoting in an implicit sense sexual intercourse. It is used similarly in Isa. 57:7 where the prophet berates the people for setting their beds on the mountains. The reference is to idolatry and hence is used also here in the sense of spiritual fornication.

            Frequently the word koitē reflects a distinctly metaphorical use of the Heb. miskāb as a surrogate for sexual congress as in Lev. 18:22; 20:13, where the word occurs in the plural construct state with ’issâh, woman. In Num. 31:17, 18, 35 and Jdg. 21:11, 12 koitē is used in a similar fashion in the expression yāda‘ miskab zākār, to know the bed of a male. The Heb. sekōbet is translated by koitē and also connotes the concept of copulation. It always occurs in construction with nātan, give. This expression occurs in Lev. 18:20, 23; Num. 5:20. In each instance the term connotes illicit sexual relationships.

            The word koitē also represents Heb. words connoting the marriage bed as Gen. 49:4 where miskāb is used, and 1 Chron. 5:1 where the Heb. word is yāsûa‘, a poetic word for bed.

            NT In the NT koitē occurs on 4 occasions. In Lk. 11:7 it is used in the sense of bed as a place of rest. In this context, an individual in Jesus’ parable protests that he cannot help someone who has solicited aid because he is in bed.

            In Rom. 9:10 the word occurs in the expression koitēn echousa, and is a euphemism for coitus, and, by expansion, conception and pregnancy. In this sense it is similar to the use of miskāb as a surrogate for coition, but no clear instance exists in Heb. where the word may connote the result of coition, i.e., conception. The theological point of the passage is that Rebekah conceived children “by one man, our forefather Isaac.” Yet before either of these male twins had done anything good or bad God in his divine sovereignty had decreed that “the elder shall serve the younger” (Rom. 9:12; cf. Gen. 25:23). The argument forms an important part of Paul’s case demonstrating to Jewish readers the consistency of divine sovereignty in the inclusion of the Gentiles in the people of God.

            The word koitē is used in the plur. in Rom. 13:13 in the sense of illicit sexual union. In this context the word is accompanied by such terms as revelling (kōmos), drunkenness (methē), and licentiousness (aselgeia), all of which are also in the plur. Believers are warned to avoid them, together with quarreling (eris) and jealousy (zēlos), “but to put on the Lord Jesus Christ, and make no provision for the flesh to gratify its desires” (Rom. 13:14).

            In Heb. 13:4 the word occurs in the sense of “marriage bed” as it does in the OT. In this context the writer affirms that the marriage relationship is an honourable one, and at the same time it is to be kept honourable.

            — “MARRIAGE, ADULTERY, BRIDE, BRIDEGROOM,” New International Dictionary of New Testament Theology

          • OnlyMyHumbleOpinion

            You can copy/paste all you want, but you did not disprove my truth: The word homosexual was INTRODUCED to the Bible in 1946. It did not exist until then. Period.

          • QuadGMoto

            By that standard the entire Bible did not exist until the English language first appeared around 450 AD.

            Please don’t be stupid.

          • OnlyMyHumbleOpinion

            Apples and oranges, my friend. If I were speaking to you, I would now choose to talk SLOWER so you could understand: The word homosexual did not exist in the Bible until someone ADDED it in 1946. Don’t believe me? Check out the King James Version (the original). Wow, for someone who copy/pastes so much scripture, you don’t study it much.

          • QuadGMoto

            I guess you are insisting on being willfully stupid.

            Do Greek words mean things? Your argument is “No, not until English came along.”

    • Kevin Hickey

      Why are you speaking in Old English?

  • iconoclast12

    How about we leave the judging to God and try to live our own lives in a Christlike way. Maybe we could focus our efforts on starving children, curing cancer, helping the poor.

    • Ray – Jesus is the Son of God.

      MATTHEW 7:1-2 –– ““Judge not, that ye be not judged. For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again.””

      First, if we examine the context we see that Jesus is not condemning all judging; He is condemning hypocritical judging (Mat. 7:5). Hypocrisy is a great and deep-seated problem among men and Christ is rebuking it. To forbid something in another person that I allow in my own life is hypocrisy.

      This is not to say, though, that Christ is forbidding judging in general. That He is not condemning all judging is evident from the context. In the same sermon He warned about false teachers and false brethren.

      “Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves. Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles? Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit” (Mat. 7:15-17).

      “Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity” (Mat. 7:21-23).

      It is impossible to beware of false prophets and false brethren without judging doctrine and practice by the God’s Word.

      That Christ is not condemning all judging is also evident by comparing Scripture with Scripture. In other passages we are commanded to judge. We are to judge righteous judgment (Jn. 7:24).

      We are to judge sin in the church (1 Cor. 5:3, 12). “For I verily, as absent in body, but present in spirit, have judged already, as though I were present, concerning him that hath so done this deed, … For what have I to do to judge them also that are without? do not ye judge them that are within?”

      We are to judge matters between the brethren (1 Cor. 6:5). “I speak to your shame. Is it so, that there is not a wise man among you? no, not one that shall be able to judge between his brethren?”

      We are to judge preaching (1 Cor. 14:29). “Let the prophets speak two or three, and let the other judge.”

      We are to judge those who preach false gospels, false christs, and false spirits (2 Cor. 11:1 -4). “But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ. For if he that cometh preacheth another Jesus, whom we have not preached, or if ye receive another spirit which ye have not received, or another gospel, which ye have not accepted, ye might well bear with him.”

      We are to judge the works of darkness (Eph. 5:11). “And have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather reprove them.”

      We are to judge spirits (1 John 4:1). “Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world.”

      We are even to judge all things (1 Cor. 2:15-16). “But he that is spiritual judgeth all things, yet he himself is judged of no man. For who hath known the mind of the Lord, that he may instruct him? But we have the mind of Christ.”

      The spiritual man does not judge all things by his own thinking but by the mind of Christ in the Word of God. He knows that he lives in a fallen world filled with lies and error and spiritual deception and he knows that he has the light of God in the Scripture and he thus judges all things by that.

      The following addition study on judging is by the late Franklin G. Huling:

      This question, Is it right to judge? is one that puzzles many sincere Christians. A careful and open-minded study of the Bible makes it clear that concerning certain vital matters, it is not only right but a positive duty to judge. Many do not know that—

      THE SCRIPTURE COMMANDS TO JUDGE.

      The Lord Jesus Christ commanded, “Judge righteous judgment” (John 7:24). He told a man, “Thou hast rightly judged” (Luke 7:43). To others, our Lord asked, “Why even of yourselves judge ye not what is right?” (Luke 12:57).

      The Apostle Paul wrote, “I speak as to wise men; judge ye what I say” (1 Corinthians 10:15). Again, Paul declared, “He that is spiritual judgeth all things” (1 Corinthians 2:15). It is our positive duty to judge.

      • vorpal

        Funny that most of the judging I’ve seen here can easily be seen to be hypocritical. Perhaps Jesus was disapproving of this judging because he recognized that most people are incapable of judging without exercising hypocrisy?

    • aCultureWarrior

      Yeah, and leave your chosen sin alone.

      • iconoclast12

        Ever have oral sex? You are a sodomite.

        • aCultureWarrior

          Look up the history of sodomite, it means homosexual.

          • vorpal

            No, it means oral or anal copulation.

      • iconoclast12

        Speaking of sin, sex outside of marriage is a sin (“Flee fornication. Every sin that a man doeth is without the body, but he that committeth fornication sinneth against his own body” I Corinthians 6:18), fortification is considered “normal” it is more rampant than gays, it is in our face, so I ask, why don’t Christians rail against fortification with any of the same fervor they do for gay sex?

        • vorpal

          Because gay people provide them with an outlet and justification for their hatred and blind condemnation, and fornication doesn’t offer the same benefits, since they might actually know fornicators.

    • http://www.mamaditto.com mamaditto

      To claim we should “leave the judging to God and just live in a Christlike way” is philosophically self-refuting, because you had to exercise “judgement” to arrive at such a conclusion.
      Jesus was very concerned that people worship God “in spirit and truth” (John 4:24). He also was very concerned that people understand exactly who He is (Matthew 16:15-17) and the purpose of His Incarnation (Luke 24:44- 47).
      So, all the talk about being a good person and doing good deeds are irrelevant, subjective assumptions by those who figure God will judge us stricltly on our personal sincerity.
      The road to hell is paved with good intentions.

      • vorpal

        …whereas the road to heaven clearly has none anywhere in sight.

    • thisoldspouse

      Christ judged. He told us to as well.

    • vorpal

      Blasphemy! This website is about “pro-family” and “traditional values”, i.e. hating gay people and demonizing them as much as possible. Your loving namby-pamby style of liberal lefty communism Christianity has no place here. Besides, don’t you know that helping starving children, curing cancer, and assisting the poor are GOOD WORKS, and all Real Christians know that good works will not get you into heaven; thus, by our 1-bit CPU black-and-white thinking, we must actively shun them! The only thing that matters is shaming – errr, I mean LOVING gay people right out of their sick sinful perverted lifestyles, making sure that they are never happy, and ensuring that we’ll have the right for years to come to demonize them and refuse with histrionic displays to serve them baked goods!

      • iconoclast12

        I believe you have a sick outlook on life and I pray for you. You would fit in in Uganda, where I understand they want to punish gays by killing them.

        • vorpal

          You do realize, right, that I am very much FOR gay rights and acceptance? I’m not sure if the sarcasm was clear to you or not.

          • iconoclast12

            My bad.

    • thisoldspouse

      [Jesus:] “Judge not according to the appearance, but judge righteous judgment.” -John 7:24

  • Dennis Michael

    Matt – I lived a gay life for many years before the Lord
    delivered me from it when I was about 30 years old. I have been a Christian for
    many years now and have never known the complete cessation of all same-sex
    attraction, though I have known a reduction in its frequency and intensity over
    the years. I also married a dear Christian woman a few years after my
    conversion who has been very supportive through some difficult periods. Your
    article has emphasized some very important points in the ‘gay debate’ that need
    to be heard more often. But – yes, here comes the ‘but’ – you said something I frequently
    hear that troubles me a little, and I’d like to speak to that briefly. I’m
    referring to what appears to be a resignation to the fact that same-sex
    attracted people who become Christians will always have that particular ‘orientation’
    and can never learn to be opposite-sex attracted. As a result, a celibate life
    becomes the only option available. Now I don’t think there’s anything
    inherently wrong with a single life and agree that it has advantages in service
    to the Lord that a married life doesn’t. At the same time, though, most former
    gay people who have been converted still have legitimate sexual desires
    (because God created us sexual beings) that can be fulfilled only in other-sex
    marriage. That means, of course, that there has to be a change in who we are
    attracted to. The biblical teaching on sanctification includes repentance from
    sin, resistance to sin, and redirection of sinful impulses into God-ordained
    channels. So it’s not enough to stop with just the first two of these. To teach
    or imply that same-sex desire cannot be replaced and redirected is to short-change
    the transformation – admittedly usually gradual – that the grace of God is able
    to effect in our lives. So while I agree that all same-sex impulse may never
    completely cease in this life, I also think it’s not completely correct to say
    that there can be no change in the direction of other-sex attraction – at least
    to one other-sex person. I do realize that these are difficult issues, and I
    speak as one who’s struggled through them, so I do not mean to minimize or trivialize
    them. But I believe the scriptures hold out to us a hope for more than just
    resignation to an attraction that is displeasing to God. And thanks for the
    article!

    • Truth Offends

      With God, all things are possible.

    • OnlyMyHumbleOpinion

      There is no such things as ex-gay. Period. That is the lie Satan spreads through bigots so that kids kill themselves trying….. Why can’t you bigots see this?!?!?!

      • DC/Tex

        Just like there is no such thing as an ex-alcoholic, but there is help through organizations such as AA that help them turn to God and away from their destructive lifestyle. They can never have another drink because they do not know if it may cause them to fall back to their destructive lifestyle.
        They were not born alcoholic, somewhere in their life they chose to have that first drink and wanted more and more.
        I think homosexuality is the worst of the worst of all destructive lifestyles because they want others to join them and celebrate their lifestyle as natural, healthy, and normal, many of them want to indoctrinate children.
        God loves everyone, as we all should, including homosexuals. God hates all sin, as we all should, including homosexuality and He says it is an abomination.

        • OnlyMyHumbleOpinion

          Yes, because a person’s sexual orientation is equivalent to substance abuse. Next.

          • DC/Tex

            Exactly, homosexuality is a chosen destructive lifestyle equivalent to substance abuse!

          • garybryson

            Not at all sugar…it’s innate.

          • OnlyMyHumbleOpinion

            I forgot to put my post. My apologies, sir.

          • vorpal

            Anyone with any formal training in substance abuse issues and homosexuality would disagree with you, but, of course, as the heterosexual Christian with no experience or education in these things, we should defer to you as the expert.

          • bkm

            You want to keep walking in and talking about the flesh.

            The Apostle Paul taught that the flesh is incorrigible and doomed. That’s why it must die, and why we must deny the flesh and walk in the spirit. To do this, you must first be spiritually reborn by the Holy Spirit, through genuine, sincere faith in Jesus Christ. Christ gives us victory over our old adversaries: the world, the flesh, and the devil.

            Php 4:13 I can do all things through Christ who strengthens me.

          • OnlyMyHumbleOpinion

            Nope. I would like to talk about reaching the lost for Christ, but you bigots keep dragging the conversation back into gay sex.

          • bkm

            Who do you think you’re fooling? God?

          • OnlyMyHumbleOpinion

            For decades, I fooled myself into thinking that only straight people go to heaven. Now I know better. You are the one thumbing your nose at God on this issue.

          • bkm

            1Co 6:9 Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals, nor sodomites,
            1Co 6:10 nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners will inherit the kingdom of God.

            Do you not trust Christ to deliver you from the power of sin by His mighty resurrection power? That’s the GOOD NEWS, the Gospel.

          • OnlyMyHumbleOpinion

            Take a look at the King James version of that verse (orginal). It does not mention homosexual at all. That word was mistakenly put into the English Bibles in 1946, my friend. I’m praying that spiritual discernment will override your bigotry.

          • bkm

            Why are you so insistent on defending sin? Even to lie? Do you not want the indescribable gift that Christ has purchased for you with His own precious blood?

            Our sinful flesh is the problem, not God. Not some eternal BBQ pit. US!

            I was set free from my sinful flesh which I now hate. I loathe my sin nature. But I was born again, and given a new nature, and the Holy Spirit. I’m no longer a debtor to the flesh. I was adopted by the Father through the Son. Don’t you want this amazing freedom? Isn’t Christ wonderful in your eyes? Aren’t you weary of your sin?

            You can insult me all you want, but it matters not. I am NOTHING. I died, and now Christ lives in and through me.

          • OnlyMyHumbleOpinion

            You obviously don’t read my posts. So, let me just quote your last paragraph back to you, because it applies equally to me:

            You can insult me all you want, but it matters not. I am NOTHING. I died, and now Christ lives in and through me.

          • bkm

            How does it apply to you? How have I insulted you?

            And, if you died in Christ, how is it that you are still a slave to sin? Why do you yet love your sin?

          • QuadGMoto

            Again, so freakin’ what?!? Greek is its own language. Its words mean things independently of English. Once an English word is coined that matches the meaning of the original Greek word’s meaning, then that is the word to use.

          • OnlyMyHumbleOpinion

            Calm down, friend. And the Greeks had many words for homosexual that were used back then. And NONE of them were used in scripture. Not one.

          • QuadGMoto

            arsenokoites.

            Case closed.

          • OnlyMyHumbleOpinion

            A word that did not exist until Paul “made it up.” Case closed.

          • QuadGMoto

            Copied from a previous comment:

            I. Am. Not. Stupid.

            Neither are you. (But you’re sure working hard at pretending.)

            Greek is not dependent upon English for its meaning.

            It was not 1946 when the Greek “acquired” that meaning, it was sometime prior to 285 BC (more than 2,200 years earlier than you assert) when the two words Paul joined were used to translate the two passages in Leviticus describing men having sex with men.

            You shall not lie with a male as with a woman; it is an abomination.

            — Leviticus 18:22

            Here is the Greek (in italics with English word for word translation) from the Septuagint (translated in 285 BC) of that verse:

            kai and meta with arsenos male ou not koimēthēsē sleep koitēn sexual relationship gynaikos woman; bdelygma abomination gar since estin it is.

            And in case it was missed the first time, God repeated it:

            If a man lies with a male as with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination; they shall surely be put to death; their blood is upon them.

            — Leviticus 20:13

            Here’s the Septuagint’s Greek (with English). This time I’m showing the first phrase to save time.

            kai and hos who (male form) an ever koimēthē sleep meta with arsenos male koitēn sexual relations gynaikos woman, …

            So if arsenos koitēn means men having sex with men in Leviticus in Greek 300 years before Paul wrote, there is absolutely zero legitimate reason to claim confusion when the space is removed from between them.

            Arsenos (male) + koitēn (sexual) (285 BC) = arsenokoitai (55 AD) = homo + sexual = homosexual (1880 AD).

            It really is that simple.

          • bkm

            ἀρσενοκοίτης
            arsenokoitēs
            Thayer Definition:
            1) one who lies with a male as with a female, sodomite, homosexual
            Part of Speech: noun masculine
            A Related Word by Thayer’s/Strong’s Number: from G730 and G2845

          • S_O_T_A

            Well, no. Acting in a way contrary to your gender is actually worse than alcohol abuse.

          • vorpal

            I’m a homosexual and I don’t act in a way contrary to my gender.

          • S_O_T_A

            Yes you do. In order to engage in homosexuality – which is innately abnormal – you must condone one person effectively pretending to be the other sex.

            Heterosexuality is normal, all other sexual combinations are abnormal, this is how nature is hardwired and it is insanity to claim otherwise. But your sinful state of mind – your hatred of God – is more important to you than truth and life.

          • vorpal

            LOL! You have some funny ideas about homosexuality. Neither my husband nor I act like the other sex.

            Show me some truth and life and I’ll let you know if I hate it. As for your god, I hate him as much as I hate the Tooth Fairy and the Easter Bunny, i.e. not at all, because him doesn’t exist.

            Nothing abnormal about homosexuality. I’ve known I was gay since I was four, and in my world, it’s the most normal thing you can imagine.

          • S_O_T_A

            LOL. Not even admitting someone’s existence is about as emphatic a proof that you hate them as is possible!

            Nothing is normal about the defining aspects of homosexuality, especially between men. The digestive system and the reproductive systems of the body are purposed entirely differently. You can feel whatever you like, the rectum will not suddenly gain elastic fibres to cope with penile insertion, nor will it lower its pH to provide protection for various diseases the way the vagina does in a woman, nor will it suddenly grow 25-40 cell thick walls compared to ONE barrier from the blood stream. Sadly the rectum does contain M-cells, which transport HIV to the immune system within about ten minutes of contamination.

            Was all that “funny”, vorpal?

            But keep telling yourself it’s normal… I on the other hand will continue to warn people about this dead-end lifestyle.

          • Larrie Argent

            What??

          • OnlyMyHumbleOpinion

            Yes, and you should never act contrary to how God made you. I agree with you completely.

          • QuadGMoto

            We are all born as sinners. So we should never act contrary to that?!?

          • OnlyMyHumbleOpinion

            And I thought you were a Christian. This is elementary stuff. Of course we are born sinners. Only through repentence, the acceptance of Christ’s Lordship, and the grace of God can we enter Heaven. Did you not go to Sunday School?

          • QuadGMoto

            But you are saying that we should not act contrary to how we are made. My point is simple: you are contradicting yourself. If we are not to act contrary to one kind of temptation, they we are not to act contrary to any temptation. On the other hand, if the Bible teaches that we are to act contrary to our temptations (and it does), then there is no legitimate reason to say you must not act contrary to temptation.

          • OnlyMyHumbleOpinion

            Your absolutist argument is a typical logic fail. I learned that in high school debate. Try again.

          • QuadGMoto

            Clearly logic does not matter to you. Nowhere does the Bible teach that our desires define right. In fact, quite the opposite.

            And he said, “What comes out of a person is what defiles him. For from within, out of the heart of man, come evil thoughts, sexual immorality, theft, murder, adultery, coveting, wickedness, deceit, sensuality, envy, slander, pride, foolishness. All these evil things come from within, and they defile a person.”
            — Mark 7:20–23

            They have become callous and have given themselves up to sensuality, greedy to practice every kind of impurity. But that is not the way you learned Christ!— assuming that you have heard about him and were taught in him, as the truth is in Jesus, to put off your old self, which belongs to your former manner of life and is corrupt through deceitful desires, and to be renewed in the spirit of your minds, and to put on the new self, created after the likeness of God in true righteousness and holiness.
            — Ephesians 4:19–24

            Put to death therefore what is earthly in you: sexual immorality, impurity, passion, evil desire, and covetousness, which is idolatry. On account of these the wrath of God is coming. In these you too once walked, when you were living in them.
            — Colossians 3:5–7

            Let no one say when he is tempted, “I am being tempted by God,” for God cannot be tempted with evil, and he himself tempts no one. But each person is tempted when he is lured and enticed by his own desire. Then desire when it has conceived gives birth to sin, and sin when it is fully grown brings forth death.
            — James 1:13–15

            Desire does not define Biblical righteousness. Period. God does via His Word. Therefore your “argument from desire” directly contradicts Scripture.

            I really hope you turn from opposing Scripture and start actually following Christ. It sounds like it will be hard for you, but it’s safe to say that the rewards will be worth it.

          • OnlyMyHumbleOpinion

            It would appear that your “misinterpretation of scripture” extends to “misinterpretation of posts” LOL. I never said that.

          • QuadGMoto

            I never said that.

            Really?

            Yes, and you should never act contrary to how God made you.

          • S_O_T_A

            Agreed. Male and female. We all have a mother and father, after all!

          • OnlyMyHumbleOpinion

            I give you an A for biology but an F for scriptural interpretation.

        • vorpal

          I think your Christianity is the worst of the worst of all destructive, vile lifestyles and perversions, because you want others to join you and celebrate your lifestyle as holy and good, and many of you want to indoctrinate children into your sick faith.

          Idiot trash.

          • S_O_T_A

            …because walking away from my sin to exhibit the fruit of the Spirit; love, joy, peace, forbearance, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness and self-control…
            ..according to you, that’s “destructive” and “vile”.

            Can you not see how upside down your thinking is?

          • vorpal

            You can call it that if you like. All I see are expressions of vile hatred towards your fellow man, using your religion to do so, which is pretty reprehensible and delusional thinking if you ask me.

            That, and pledging faith to a 2000 year old set of ideals frozen in time, which is anti-intellectual.

            Seems pretty lose-lose, and destructive and vile. I’d say that your thinking is pretty upside-down; anyone who hasn’t drank the toxic kool aid and who came here and saw what the posters here are saying would easily see just how destructive and vile this religion is.

          • QuadGMoto

            From the article:

            My hope is not in a temporal change in my sexuality, but in an eternal promise that Jesus has saved me and will lead me into a life of indescribable pleasure forever. <—-This is the hope of the gospel.

            What the Lord has done for me and countless other “gay” people He will gladly do for you.

            My, you have an interesting definition of “vile hatred towards your fellow man”.

          • S_O_T_A

            Jesus died to save you from your sins. If you die without repentance from them, then you face Him, be sure to tell Him how reprehensible that was to try to save you.

            You also live in a culture that wouldn’t be one tenth as civilised without the historical Christian influence. I consider YOUR statement the backward one.

        • Larrie Argent

          Best example of misinformation and bigotry on this thread. Gold medal!

      • Dennis Michael

        I am ex-gay, so there really are such things. And since a practicing gay person will not inherit the kingdom of God (1 Cor. 6:9-11), it’s a good thing there are ex-gays.

        • OnlyMyHumbleOpinion

          Just so we’re clear on terminology, please define “ex-gay.”

          • Dennis Michael

            See above.

          • chillinout.

            You’re not “ex-gay”, you’re suppressing your natural same sex sexuality, and desire to force all gay people to be closeted as yourself. How sad to be so brainwashed

          • Matthew T. Mason

            How do you know that? You don’t know anything about the man beyond what he has said here.

          • vorpal

            This is rich, coming from the guy who calls anyone who doesn’t conform to his delusions a liar. I guess that you’re the only one who is qualified to indulge yourself in making inferences about people based on what they have said. The difference here is that chillinout’s inferences can be implied from the article, whereas yours are completely out to lunch.

          • chillinout.

            You mean other than him admitting he’s still attracted to men? You’re right, because straight men desire to take it up the butt from other guys. Anything to justify your stupidity though

          • JBenning

            You really are stupid aint ya?

          • S_O_T_A

            Of course, why should someone be able to reduce your platform for sanctimony? It’s your right to be sanctimonious rather than care about how God heals people.

            But in truth he can call himself ‘ex-gay’ without needing your affirmation for even a micron of his own life. Your political terminology is completely secondary, ok?

          • chillinout.

            He needs my affirmation to be a fraud? Do you need my affirmation to spew stupidity? Your political and “religious” beliefs are secondary to my human rights to date, have sex with, hold hands and kiss in public with, and marry the person I choose. Get used to it

          • helligusvart

            Like most homosexuals you think only about yourself and your petty wants.

          • chillinout.

            Like all evangelicals, all you care about is foisting your perverted beliefs on everyone else. Thankfully you’ll lose, in this life, and in the afterlife

          • Dennis Michael

            I’m amazed at how much people know about me who have never meant me. This is such a typical gay response – an emotional appeal coupled with false accusations. The only ‘natural’ sexual desire and activity approved by God is male/female union within the boundaries of monogamous marriage. What I ‘suppressed’ (actually changed) was my sinful and unnatural same-sex sexuality. And I could really care less whether gay people are in or out of the closet. Oh, I’m not brainwashed. I’m transformed by the grace of God so I now think right about sexuality.

          • chillinout.

            The only natural sexual desire is the one that you’re born with. Your bible is a lie, and everything in it is a lie aimed at controlling and dumbing down the masses, and you fell for it. What you suppressed was being able to have a loving, meaningful (and sexual) relationship with another man because the triple divorced bigots who surrounded you said they would kick you out of your life if you didn’t change the fabric of who you were. And you listened, and not only that, now you want to force other gay people to be as miserable and hateful of their sexuality as you. Thankfully, like your racist grandparents, you will lose

          • Dennis Michael

            Racist grandparents? Where did that come from? Nothing you said here is true. But you seem to have some real problems. Please take them somewhere else, because I will not respond to this invective.

          • chillinout.

            LOLOL, everything I said here is true, which is why it upsets you so much. Although I’m disgusted by your actions and demeanor towards your fellow gay man, I also feel bad for you. No matter what church you go to, no matter what book you read, no matter how much “family” you surround yourself with, you’ll never be happy, and you know that. Because you’re not being you, you’re not being the person you were meant to be, and the people who “love” you, don’t actually love you for who you are, they love being able to force you into being what they want you to be. Live a life of religious ignorance, or a live a life where you are free. Your choice

          • Dennis Michael

            If you think your tirade has upset me, you have far too grandiose an opinion of yourself. Don’t feel bad for me. Feel bad for yourself, because unless you turn from your sin, it will not go well for you on the day when God judges the world.

          • chillinout.

            What happens when you die and find out that christianity is a lie? You will have wasted your life in agony, not worshipping god, but worshipping a book that people have changed the definition of thousands of times. Only simpletons live by evangelical rule, it’s a shame you are one

          • Dennis Michael

            Better question – What happens when you die and find out that the teaching of Jesus Christ is true? “Prayers For Bobby” has nothing to do with true Christianity. It’s bad distortion of it. Oh yes, I was a gay man, but I’m much better off since I renounced it. Take care.

          • helligusvart

            The fact that there really are ex-gays is what upsets you so much. And you will continue to stew in your hate and frustration until you confess your sin to God and repent of it. By the way, the freedom to practice the Christian religion trumps all other rights except the right to physically live. Its part of the 1st Amendment. Note that “gay rights” never made it into the Constitution at all, let alone the 1st Amendment.

          • chillinout.

            There is no such thing as an “ex-gay”, just like there’s no such thing as “traditional marriage”, only brainwashed bigots and hypocrites, like yourself. Within the next year or two, ENDA will pass congress and ban all discrimination against gays, and marriage equality will be the law of the land as well. The freedom of religion is your worst friend theocrat. BAHAHAHA

          • http://luvisaverb.net.au/ Monsignor

            Appreciate you sharing your story Dennis, thanks.

          • OnlyMyHumbleOpinion

            That was not a definition, friend.

          • Dennis Michael

            I thought it was a good one. But let’s not get side-tracked by terminology. I am a person who was attracted to guys from my earliest sexual awakening. I was never attracted to females. For about 15 years I lived an openly gay life characterized by lots of sex with lots of guys interspersed with several longer-term relationships…until the next good-looking guy came along. Then at the age of 30 I was converted by the grace of God and immediately left the gay life. After a few years I met and married a woman who has been my wife now for over 30 years. We raised 4 daughters from her previous marriage to an abusive drunk. Now we have 10 grandkids. This has been my life since I became a follower of Jesus Christ. I have never had another homosexual encounter since I left the gay life over 30 years ago. And this is what I mean by ‘ex-gay.’

          • S_O_T_A

            Good for you, Dennis. God Bless you and be encouraged to continue to tell your testimony, despite those like OMHO who would effectively call you a liar.

          • OnlyMyHumbleOpinion

            And yet you left out the one thing all ex-gays (including me at the time) always leave out of our testimony. Can you tell me what that is?

          • Dennis Michael

            You tell me. I’m not good at guessing games.

          • OnlyMyHumbleOpinion

            That you are still attracted to men sexually.

          • Dennis Michael

            If you’ve been reading my posts here, you will see that I’m not denying that the remnants of that sin are still with me. But sanctification is a process as we die more and more to our sins and live more and more for Christ. The Bible says we ‘are perfecting holiness’ (2 Cor. 7:1); it’s ongoing and never complete in this life. But there is real and significant change. I was once consumed with and controlled by homosexual desire and did everything I could to satisfy it. Now it pesters me, but doesn’t control me, and I no longer live to satisfy it. I live to please God and my wife. I am not close to the man I was since God has changed my heart.

          • OnlyMyHumbleOpinion

            And that’s what started our entire conversation, friend. When I said to define “ex-gay”, you don’t define it the same way the straight people do. And that confuses them and sends the wrong message about what God’s will is for this. I, too, am not driven by my flesh. Those who are driven by their lusts, whether straight or gay, need to seek Christ’s continued help in that.

            So, to you, “ex-gay” means “no longer controlled” by these sexual desires for men. Correct?

          • Dennis Michael

            I won’t quarrel with that definition as far as it goes. I would just add that it includes a lessening of the frequency and intensity of the desires and their replacement with sexual desires that God approves of. The Bible describes the transforming process of grace as ‘cleansing ourselves from all defilement of body and spirit’ (2 Cor. 7:1),so it involves more than just outward conduct. It also involves what we think and feel and desire.

            Also – I’m not following you and your reference to what straight people think about this. They can’t possibly know what it’s like. Not arguing, just wondering.

          • driftergal

            Question, when I was young I would steal things. As I got older I learned that stealing was wrong by reading the Bible. I still have urges to steal things but I don’t because I know its wrong. Would I be considered an ex-thief or am I still a thief because the thought of stealing things I would like to have still enters my mind? Also, I have always had a lustful nature but I also know that lusting is wrong and it will take me down a road that I don’t need to go if I give in to those lustful urges. Since I don’t give in to that lustful nature but keep it under control using the spiritual tools I have learned through the years, am I still a slave to lust or have I overcome that part of me that I don’t want to control me?

          • OnlyMyHumbleOpinion

            Lust can be a sin. Stealing is a sin. Homosexuality is not. Scripture and logic fail.

        • Walt NYC

          I have no problem with you choosing whatever path you believe works for you. Everyone deserves a chance to be happy and fulfilled. What I do take exception with is the term “ex-gay.” It’s a misnomer. You, yourself, admit that you “have never known the complete cessation of same-sex attraction.” If you were truly ex-gay, you would be straight. At the very least, you might be bisexual.

          • Dennis Michael

            1 Cor. 6:9-11 says: “Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor homosexuals, nor thieves, nor the covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers, will inherit the kingdom of God. Such were some of you; but you were washed, but you were sanctified, but you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and in the Spirit of our God.” The scriptures clearly say that there were former homosexuals in the Corinthian church. It’s what they once were, but after their conversion they weren’t that way any longer. Struggling with sin that remains in the flesh is not at all the same thing as self-identifying and living as gay. I left the gay life as soon as I was converted and never went back. I also renounced and continue to renounce the same-sex desires that remain in the flesh. And I redirected my sexual desires into the proper channels by marrying a woman and doing what God commands. The Bible clearly teaches that other-sex sexual desire and expression is the only kind that God approves of, and it is to be confined within the bounds of marriage. All other forms are violations of his design and are sin – straight sex outside of marriage, gay sex (including the orientation), bisexual sex, etc. It’s not about choosing what works for me, but choosing what works for God. And that is only male/female sex within the context of monogamous marriage.

          • Walt NYC

            That’s great. You did what you felt like you had to do (according to what you believe God wants for you). Everyone has that right. However, by your own admission, you’re still not “ex-gay.” You’re simply non-practicing, which, again, is your right.

          • Dennis Michael

            I have renounced my homosexuality in desire and practice. So I think that makes me ex-gay. Or let’s say it biblically – that’s how I used to be, but I’m not that way any more. And that is consistent with ongoing struggles with remaining sin. The problem you’re having is a lack of understanding of the biblical teaching on sanctification.

          • Walt NYC

            NO, the problem I am having is with the term “ex-gay.” I don’t believe there is such a thing. And so far, I’ve seen nothing that proves me wrong. That’s all.

          • bkm

            2Co 5:17 Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation; old things have passed away; behold, all things have become new.

          • Dennis Michael

            That’s probably because you’ve bought into the whole orientation line. We have to think biblically about these things. People can be ex-gay just like they can be ex-fornicators and ex-drunks and ex-liars, etc. according to the text I quoted.

          • Walt NYC

            I will again refer you to your own words: “I have been a Christian for many years now and have never known the complete cessation of all same-sex attraction…” Not ex-gay.

          • Dennis Michael

            I’m proof that it’s not possible only if we go by your
            definition of ‘ex-gay.’ But that doesn’t fit with the biblical information. First, the Bible calls us
            to repentance, or turning from, what it clearly identifies as sin.
            Homosexuality is one of those things. It also tells us that resistance to
            temptation is necessary in dealing with sin. That includes homosexual sin. And
            it teaches that sinful patterns of life are to be redirected into avenues that
            are pleasing to God. In the case of homosexuality, this means the reorienting
            of sexual desire into God’s design for man/woman marriage. Second, the demands
            of the Bible do not depend for their validity on people losing all their innate
            desires to disobey those demands. The Bible tells us not to be slaves to our
            passions no matter how deeply ingrained and persistent they might be. The Bible
            recognizes an orientation argument (I was born this way and can’t help it) and
            a non-exploitation argument (I won’t hurt anyone by doing this) and rejects
            them both as excuses for disobedience. The Bible is not naïve about the
            persistent character of misdirected sexual urges and the long-term effort
            needed to effectively manage them. Yet it never allows these realities to
            minimize the radical nature of the call to holiness and sexual purity. Third,
            change in the Bible does not mean the complete elimination of intensely felt
            and unwanted impulses. It means increasing obedience to the will of God in
            spite of the contrary impulses of the flesh, the sin-controlled part that still
            remains in Christians. Significant change occurs by the power of the Holy
            Spirit even though it’s not accompanied by a complete eradication of sinful
            desire. In fact, battling strong internal contrary desires is evidence of real
            change. Before I became a Christian, I never fought these desires, but indulged
            them to the fullest. I do not do that anymore!

          • thisoldspouse

            I think the problem you have is not understanding that what one wills defines him every bit, if not more so, as what one desires. In fact, our ability to will, despise the demands of physical impulses, is what makes us human.

          • Walt NYC

            Then, you’d be wrong. I have no problem with the concept of “will.” But there are also things that are beyond our will. If you want to say, “I have willed myself to despise the demands of my same-sex attraction,” I can understand that. It doesn’t make you “ex-gay.” Your same-sex attraction still exists. You have simply just willed yourself back into the closet.

          • thisoldspouse

            Are you saying that the ability to control having sex, or out-of-control anger, or urges to abuse drugs or alcohol, or overeating, etc. are out of our control?

            Are we just animals?

          • Walt NYC

            When did I ever say that? I said there are things that are beyond our “will.” Take sex, for instance. Of course you can control when, where or even if you have sex. That doesn’t mean you have willed away your desire to have sex. You simply aren’t acting on it. The same goes for sexual orientation. You can refuse to act on your same-sex attraction but that doesn’t mean that you have wished it away. It’s still there. You’re not “ex-gay.” You simply don’t act on it. This could also apply to a heterosexual. Let’s say a heterosexual refuses to act on his or her opposite sex attractions and just stops having sex or even interacting with the opposite sex on any level. Would you say that person is “ex-straight?” Of course not.

          • vorpal

            My problem is that your terminology is not consistent with the widely understood definitions given to this terminology, and is thus inherently misleading, and somewhat dishonest. It sets up false expectations for people who pursue ex-gay therapy, and ultimately, leads to failure and results in serious psychological damage. The rates of depression, self-harm, substance abuse, and suicide amongst men participating in ex-gay therapies and ministries is far, far higher than amongst gay men for a reason.

          • Dennis Michael

            I do not endorse psychologically-based ex-gay therapies. Homosexuality is not a psychological or medical problem, therefore it can’t be ‘cured’ by therapy. Homosexuality is a moral problem deeply ingrained in the sinful nature we’re all born with. The only thing that can effectively change that is the power and grace of God in conversion from sin to righteousness. I define ‘ex-gay’ in this biblical sense. If the term is misleading, I will gladly discard it for more biblical concepts, like repentance and sanctification that effect real change in how we think and feel and behave.

          • http://www.facebook.com/robertoscar.lopez Robert Oscar Lopez

            Walt, I am bisexual, and yet your allies in the gay press repeatedly call me ex-gay, even though I’ve published in many articles the fact that I do NOT consider myself ex-gay, rather, I am someone who has had sex with both women and men but is now in a faithful marriage to a woman. So you will need to stop harassing us on these message boards here and at American Thinker, and go engage in a tough conversation with your fellow pro-gay acolytes. They can’t have it both ways, telling ex-gays they’re not ex-gay but rather bisexual, then telling bisexuals that they’re ex-gay. It seems you people just always apply the term that you think will incense and provoke people you don’t like. It’s childish.

            My advice to people on this thread and elsewhere is not to respond to Walt NYC or Austin Bam Bam or any other of the gay commenters until they can come back and report the results of their discussion with OTHER gay commentators about how they are going to deal with people who engaged once in homosexual activity and now aren’t so engaged. It seems they melt like the Wicked Witch of the West in contact with us and don’t know what to do, running around like women in London who just escaped the asylum in their nightgowns.

          • Walt NYC

            I’ve never referred to you, or anyone else for that matter, as “ex-gay” because, as I have already said, I don’t believe there is such a thing. No need to announce your sexual orientation. I already know the one thing about you that I need to know, which is that you are a shameless liar. Any other information is inconsequential.

      • vorpal

        We see the incredible suffering that the “ex-gay” movement has brought again and again and again, and the pain that mixed orientation marriages have caused, and yet, people who don’t know better but consider themselves to be self-proclaimed experts on the subject for no valid reason consider to push people in this harmful direction. It is truly heart breaking.

      • thisoldspouse

        There’s obviously no such thing as ex-stupid, either. Or ex-rebellious. Or ex-HIV positive.

    • jim

      I hear what your saying that the change is “gradual” and has to be that way because you like me have trained our brains to think a certain way . So we “exgays” or better “a new creation” must bring every thought under the captivity of Christ(2 Corinthians 10:5) whether it be sexual or not. Because, those of us who believe, must now fight the spiritual battle since the enemy’s perpetual aim is to infiltrate and flood our thoughts with his thoughts and to promote his lie in the face of God’s truth. If Satan can control our thoughts, he can control our behavior. What our mind is set on is the direction that our body will follow. Satan searches for whom he can devour. For instance, a sexual thought will pop into my mind, out of nowhere, of man who I had sex with 20 years ago and the memory can be eurphoric stirring ever emotion. It that moment I know how Jesus felt when Satan tempted him. I don’t keep thinking of it because it is an illusion. I stand on Jesus’ word and resist “get behind me Satan” and I ask jesus to deal with the temptation and indeed Satan does flee
      Be strong in the Lord!

      • Dennis Michael

        Yes, Jim, it is a fight. And God gives us the strength to battle on. Keep up the good fight!

    • Larrie Argent

      so you’re bisexual. get over it

      • Dennis Michael

        I knew this was coming sooner or later. It always does. I’m not bisexual, because I’m not having sex with guys and gals. I have sex with my wife only…who, by the way, is a woman. Before I became a Christian, I had sex with guys only. I wasn’t bi then, and I’m not bi now. Please don’t put your definitions on me. I was gay, and now I’m not. Get over it.

        • Larrie Argent

          Denial ain’t just a river in Eqypt. Lots of bi’s switch and many lead monogamous lives but that doesn’t change how they were born.

          • Dennis Michael

            You apparently can’t get past your preconceptions. Read what I said once again. I was attracted only to males. I had no interest in females. That’s not bi. Now I have sex with one woman only. That’s not bi. We are what we do. As far as how we’re born, we’re all born sinners with a natural aversion to what God requires of us. That expresses itself in many ways, one of which is homosexuality. But the grace of God in Christ can change that. It changed me. And it’s changed many others.

      • thisoldspouse

        “Bi” is just the desperate attempt by loony Leftists to avoid the fact that sexuality is changeable.

    • http://theawakenednation.ning.com/profile/KevinMKeener Snowman8wa

      Great response, I believe you addressed many misconceptions others are quick to tout, from the viewpoint of “the Harlot” in John 8. You know where you stood in your walk with GOD and Our Lord specifically stated that he does not condemn her, BUT she is to go and sin no more. GOD forgives all of us but we still have the rememberance of who we used to be, so we stay on track to where we are headed.

      The problem lies in something else Jesus shows us in forewarning everyone that “MAN” cannot serve two Masters, it’s either GOD or “mammon”. Take the word for what it’s worth, the point is, we either SERVE GOD or we are prisoners to SIN and therefor, no matter what OUR OPINION is, in this state WE SHALL NOT Inherit the Kingdom of GOD.

      The LGBT AGENDA among many other agendas, expects GOD to conform to “man”. GOD is no respector of persons. We conform to GOD, not vice-versa.
      Freedom is the ability to make a choice, but we don’t get to make the WRONG CHOICE and then snivel about what we chose. I like to remind people of Proverbs 21:2 and 30:11-14; until MAN can come to grips of These TRUTHS…..the rest is irrelivant. We have to address our own hearts and stop worrying about what the other person is doing because we will ALL stand before GOD on Judgment day accounting ONLY FOR OURSELVES. “It’s Bob’s fault” or “Jimmy does it” isn’t going to fly with GOD. However, with that being said, I do get to JUDGE how your behavior AFFECTS me in my walk with GOD and I do get to JUDGE whether or not I want to participate with others POOR choices that affect my relationship with Our Lord. It’s the price of confessing “I belong to GOD.”

      Semper Vigilo, Fortis, Paratus et Fidelis

  • Jarhead

    How ignorant can people become?……that is like describing yourself as a tall – short person, and also as thin – fat . . with dark – light skin color…..it don’t make any sense…
    These freaks are sick and should seek out medical help and cut out the crack……

    • OnlyMyHumbleOpinion

      I’m a gay Christian and proud of it. Don’t let your bigotry cloud your views. Only Satan wins when you spout bigotry, friend.

      • thisoldspouse

        Can someone be a proud adulterer Christian?

        • OnlyMyHumbleOpinion

          I don’t know. Are you?

          • thisoldspouse

            You apparently think it’s possible.

          • OnlyMyHumbleOpinion

            Tell me what its like.

          • thisoldspouse

            How about an out and proud divorcé Christian? Why don’t you call Vickie Gene Robinson and find out.

          • Drew Humberd

            Or Newt Gingrich? :)

  • OnlyMyHumbleOpinion

    Matt, you are gay. You will always be gay. Your own life is a testament to that. About a year ago, you were caught on Grindr, the gay hook-up app. Huffpost even had an article on it. God made you gay and you cannot change it. You can bury it, like I did, but you can’t change it. And God won’t change it because He did not make a mistake to begin with. Accept the fact that you are gay and a Christian like me. Trust me, I used to think like you did, but the guilt alone will drive you insane. Until you accept who God made you to be, you will never be at peace, my friend.

    • http://www.mamaditto.com mamaditto

      @onlymyhumbleopinion: Not nice.

      God doesn’t make someone “gay” anymore than He would make someone a Playboy Bunny.

      The annoying character flaws which remain a consistent source of irritation in the life of the believer are termed “besetting sins.”
      They may never be vanquished completely. There are
      no instant cures or else we would not continue to struggle with them. This is why the Lord Jesus Christ told His disciples in Luke 9:23 ,”If
      anyone would come after me, he must deny himself and take up his cross daily and follow me.”

      In Romans7 and 2Corinthians12, the Apostle Paul gave some indication as to his own inner struggles. In response to prayer, the Lord Jesus referred Paul to His grace. (2 Cor 12:9) during those hard times.

      The Christian life is not easy. No one can with 100 % accuracy achieve God’s righteous standards of holiness – except for the spotless Son of God. As the Apostle James wrote in James 3:2, “We all stumble in many ways…”

      Mosaic Law punished people for their actions, not their thoughts. Jesus
      brought us to the next level by pointing out that God is concerned with our
      thought life, as thoughts precede actions. (cf. Matthew 5:28) This is why He used the hyperbole of cutting off hands and plucking out eyes (Matthew 5:29,30) – to teach us to deal with destructive thought patterns before they get out of control.

      So, whenever we stumble with bouts of anger, bitterness, impatience,
      lust, self-pity, worry, etc – these moments should be taken as symptoms of a setback and the need for a timeout to readjust.

      Even though besetting sins make us feel depressed and unworthy, they actually have a role in spiritual maturation. Besetting sins keep us humble. It’s hard to be arrogant when besetting sins are always there to haunt us.

      Besetting sins keep us patient. They remind us of our need to spend time in prayer, Bible study and fellowship with others who can pray for and encourage us.

      Besetting sins put us in touch with our own weaknesses.
      We learn that certain people and/or situations simply must be avoided to reduce episodes of temptation in our lives.

      King David wrote Psalm 51 after committing adultery with Bathsheba and arranging to have her husband, Uriah, killed in battle. It serves as the model prayer for contrition as wrongdoing is acknowledged (vs.3) and a plea for “attitude adjustment” by God is made (vs.10).
      Near the end of his life, King David took acknowledged the LORD “…who has delivered me out of every trouble.” (1 Kings 1:29). This from an adulterer and murderer. So, don’t think God can’t deal with same-sex attraction.

      “The Christian is involved in the human situation. Within he must battle his own evil human nature; without he must live in a world of death and decay. Nonetheless, the Christian does not live only in the world; he also lives in Christ. He does not see only the world; he looks beyond it to God. He does not see only the consequences of man’s sin; he sees the power of God’s mercy and love. Therefore, the keynote of the Christian life is always hope and never despair.” – ( 1) Barclay, Wm., “The Letter to the Romans”, Westminster Press, Philadelphia, 1975, p.111.

      Recommended reading: Rev. Dr. Robert Morey,”Satan’s Devices: Breaking Free from the Schemes of the Enemy”
      (theological treatise on the strategies used by the devil to discourage faith.)

      • OnlyMyHumbleOpinion

        I appreciate the time you put into your post, however, I must respectfully tell you that I am a better expert at what Matthew is going through than you. He is basically living my life right now. I know what will happen next, because it happened to me. I know what he is feeling because I felt ALL those things he is saying above. By denying who God made him, he is setting himself up for a life without the Joy of Christ. God could not use me until I finally accepted that He made me Gay. Today, I have a spiritual peace that can only come from the Holy Spirit. And God is using me in the lives of the lost like He never did before. It is people like you that Satan uses to keep Matthew from becoming the Christian God wants him to be. No offense, friend.

        • dhebler

          You need to quit acting like a Christian, because there is no partiality in God’s laws about immoral sexuality. Either you stand with God, or you stand against God, and there is no middle ground here about homosexuality! Refrain-repent, or else–(Rev 22:15)….

          • OnlyMyHumbleOpinion

            As a Christian, I cannot quit acting like one. I’m sure you will agree.

          • QuadGMoto

            But I have a few things against you: you have some there who hold the teaching of Balaam, who taught Balak to put a stumbling block before the sons of Israel, so that they might eat food sacrificed to idols and practice sexual immorality. So also you have some who hold the teaching of the Nicolaitans. Therefore repent. If not, I will come to you soon and war against them with the sword of my mouth.

            — Revelation 2:14–16

            But I have this against you, that you tolerate that woman Jezebel, who calls herself a prophetess and is teaching and seducing my servants to practice sexual immorality and to eat food sacrificed to idols. I gave her time to repent, but she refuses to repent of her sexual immorality. Behold, I will throw her onto a sickbed, and those who commit adultery with her I will throw into great tribulation, unless they repent of her works, and I will strike her children dead. And all the churches will know that I am he who searches mind and heart, and I will give to each of you according to your works.

            — Revelation 2:20–23

            Note that in both these cases, Jesus is speaking of those who are supposedly within the church claiming that sexual immorality (which is defined only in the O.T.) is not sin (as you are doing), and He actively opposes and “hates” those who do so.

          • OnlyMyHumbleOpinion

            Homosexuality is not sexual immorality, except in your bigoted beliefs.

          • QuadGMoto

            You shall not lie with a male as with a woman; it is an abomination.

            “Do not make yourselves unclean by any of these things, for by all these the nations I am driving out before you have become unclean, and the land became unclean, so that I punished its iniquity, and the land vomited out its inhabitants.
            — Leviticus 18:22, 24–25

            What is difficult to understand about that?

            “The world cannot hate you, but it hates me because I testify about it that its works are evil.”
            — Jesus, John 7:7

            “Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. For truly, I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not an iota, not a dot, will pass from the Law until all is accomplished. Therefore whoever relaxes one of the least of these commandments and teaches others to do the same will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever does them and teaches them will be called great in the kingdom of heaven.”
            — Matthew 5:17–19

            “Blessed are you when people hate you and when they exclude you and revile you and spurn your name as evil, on account of the Son of Man! Rejoice in that day, and leap for joy, for behold, your reward is great in heaven; for so their fathers did to the prophets.”
            — Luke 6:22–23

          • ezekiel22

            Wrong. Marriage in the Bible is described as between man and woman. Sex outside of that union is counted as sin.

          • OnlyMyHumbleOpinion

            Your second sentence is true. Sex outside of marriage is sin. That’s my marriage equality is God-blessed.

          • QuadGMoto

            And marriage is defined as one man, one woman, for life.

            “But from the beginning of creation, ‘God made them male and female.’ ‘Therefore a man shall leave his father and mother and hold fast to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh.’ So they are no longer two but one flesh.”
            — Mark 10:6–8

            Oh, sorry. I keep forgetting that you think this is a passage that is difficult to “interpret.”

          • OnlyMyHumbleOpinion

            Nowhere in that verse did it mention exclusivity, did it? Inferring exclusivity is “adding to the Word” and that is a sin, my friend.

          • QuadGMoto

            Marriage is NEVER defined otherwise in the Bible’s teachings; and in one case, child bearing is defined as part of that definition, which excludes same-sex pairing, and that is the passage Jesus is referring to. So what BIBLICAL reason can you give to claim otherwise?

          • OnlyMyHumbleOpinion

            You confuse “described” with “defined.” Look them up, friend.

          • QuadGMoto

            There are descriptions of “marriage” in the Bible which are outside of “one man, one woman, for life.” But the only definitions given (statements of what God says it is to be) are exactly that.

            de·fine
            verb

            1. to state or set forth the meaning of (a word, phrase, etc.).

            2.to explain or identify the nature or essential qualities of; describe.

            3. to fix or lay down clearly and definitely; specify distinctly. Synonyms:state, name, describe, detail, enumerate.

            4. to determine or fix the boundaries or extent of.

            5. to make clear the outline or form of.

          • OnlyMyHumbleOpinion

            Wow, remind me not to have you define “War and Peace” LOL. You crack me up. You dance “around” my questions but never answer nor refute them.

          • QuadGMoto

            I did answer your question. You just refuse to accept it. The Bible never, ever teaches that marriage is anything other than one man, one woman, for life. It does teach against all same sex relationships, which excludes anything outside that “one man, one woman” definition. It includes child bearing as part of the purpose of marriage, which excludes same-sex “marriage”. Your bald gainsaying does not change the Bible’s clear, unequivocal teachings made using simple words and grammar.

            Bottom line, you are asserting yourself over God. That is not a position I would wish on anyone, including you. But only you can change that, and I wish you would turn to Him and follow Him.

          • Drew Humberd

            What about Jacob? Or Solomon?

          • QuadGMoto

            That’s the distinction between define and describe. Those are cases when their actions are described, but those arrangements are never taught as what marriage is supposed to be.

          • Drew Humberd

            That seems like a distinction without a difference when you’re talking about two of the most highly-praised OT figures. Polygamy was clearly a trait of ancient Hebrew society, and God planned for it.

          • QuadGMoto

            So when a historian describes a massacre, is that historian saying that massacre was okay? How about a prosecutor describing a crime?

            Double-standard much?

          • Drew Humberd

            Um…no? Because a description of a massacre or a crime is not endorsed as a moral guide?

            I’m just saying that if you’re going to point to the Bible as your basis for policing sexual “morality,” the polygamy of its prophets is, like, ground zero for the questions you need to address. Let’s not even talk about David and Jonathan, whose love for each other was greater than their love of women…

          • QuadGMoto

            The Bible describes historical events. It is not solely a moral guide in the sense of stating propositions. Describing a historical event which contradicts what is being taught is necessarily part of history because people behave badly; especially when that history is being used as a negative example.

            To insist that historical descriptions of events not be treated as historical descriptions is to apply a double-standard.

          • Drew Humberd

            Except that Solomon and Israel and David are not used as negative examples for these behaviors.

          • QuadGMoto

            Yet again, I need to remind you of another definition.

            friend

            noun

            3. a person who is on good terms with another; a person who is not hostile.

            Attempting to get someone to call “evil” “good” does not fit that definition.

          • OnlyMyHumbleOpinion

            But you aren’t evil, friend. Don’t call yourself that. I do believe you are a Christian, although seriously confused. And as I am a Christian, also, that makes us brothers. But I prefer “friend” which is also applicable.

          • QuadGMoto

            You shall not lie with a male as with a woman; it is an abomination.
            — Leviticus 18:22</blockquote.

            Anything which is an "abomination" in God's eyes is evil.

            Woe to those who call evil good
            and good evil,
            who put darkness for light
            and light for darkness,
            who put bitter for sweet
            and sweet for bitter!
            — Isaiah 5:20

            No “friend” would try to get me to fall under this condemnation.

          • PropheticExplorer

            You can do anything you want including stop acting like a Christian. Free will is always in place, but you will pay for the choices you make on judgment day.

          • OnlyMyHumbleOpinion

            Christ’s blood covers my sins through God’s grace, friend.

          • PropheticExplorer

            Christ blood only covers sins you repent of and TURN AWAY FROM.

          • OnlyMyHumbleOpinion

            Agreed. Homosexuality is not a sin and is not mentioned in scripture. Jesus never condemned it once.

          • QuadGMoto

            “Is not mentioned in Scripture”?!?!?

            And he said, “Go, and say to this people:
            “‘Keep on hearing, but do not understand;
            keep on seeing, but do not perceive.’
            Make the heart of this people dull,
            and their ears heavy,
            and blind their eyes;
            lest they see with their eyes,
            and hear with their ears,
            and understand with their hearts,
            and turn and be healed.”
            Then I said, “How long, O Lord?”
            And he said:
            “Until cities lie waste
            without inhabitant,
            and houses without people,
            and the land is a desolate waste,
            and the LORD removes people far away,
            and the forsaken places are many in the midst of the land.
            — Isaiah 6:9–12

          • OnlyMyHumbleOpinion

            Correct. And that verse didn’t mention it either. Did you make a mistake in your copy/paste, friend?

          • QuadGMoto

            You know Scripture clearly mentions and condemns homosexuality. (You have been shown by me too many times not not know that.) This passage relates to your reaction to those passages.

          • OnlyMyHumbleOpinion

            No it does not. And to say otherwise is to “add to scripture” which is a sin, my friend. Please repent.

          • QuadGMoto

            Wow. What an assertion contrary to the simple facts!

            (Paraphrasing) “men laying with men as with a woman” “Homosexuals (arsenokoitai)”

          • QuadGMoto

            Jesus never condemned beastiality. By your “logic”, that makes it okay.

          • OnlyMyHumbleOpinion

            Nope. Red herring. You are so predictable.

          • QuadGMoto

            Then why is beastiality (mentioned immediately after homosexual behavior in Leviticus) still a sin even though it is not mentioned at all in the New Testament, but homosexuality which is explicitly condemned in the New Testament not a sin?

            C’mon OMHO, I’ve challenged you with this before, and you have never given a reason, merely bald assertions that it is so.

          • OnlyMyHumbleOpinion

            Red herring and deflection. (sigh). Stick to the subject if you want to debate with the adults.

          • QuadGMoto

            Use valid logic if you claim something is true.

          • OnlyMyHumbleOpinion

            I always do. Your inability to understand it does not affect its validity.

          • QuadGMoto

            You haven’t even tried. For example, the beastiality challenge.

          • OnlyMyHumbleOpinion

            Ok, your inability to REMEMBER when we already talked about it does not force me to re-educate you. Here’s the short version: Homosexuality does not lead to bestiality just like heterosexuality does not lead to rape. They are apples and oranges.

          • QuadGMoto

            I did not say “leads to”. I never said “leads to”. You are putting words in my mouth. That is part of your dodging to avoid the logic of your claims.

            The question is, why do you consider one to be a sin, but not the other?

        • ezekiel22

          I still say you are incorrect. Being gay is a choice although a rebellious one with a good dose of fear mixed in. I do know. I can also point to another person who as the author of this aricle plainly states is gay. He is living a celibate life now as he knows that God does not want him in a relationship that contradicts His Word. Nobody said it was or is easy to take up your cross but there it is.

          • OnlyMyHumbleOpinion

            He is not celibate. He frequents websites for gay hook-ups. Look it up. There is no such thing as ex-gay. You can push it down, but you will never lose it. You can deny it, but not for long. I denied it for decades, and only ended up hurting people – because I believed bigots like you that said there was a “cure” and that it was a “choice.” You hve no idea how many deaths YOU have caused with your bigotry. I was almost one of them, friend.

          • ezekiel22

            There is always a choice just that some are not easy. You forgot to ask me how I know about that choice. By you not allowing others to have a choice you yourself are guilty of harming others in supporting your agenda. You are also guilty of projecting your weakness upon another. That is of the devil.

          • OnlyMyHumbleOpinion

            I know firsthand there is no choice. And I know the spiritual and psychological damage that does. If God wanted gay people to be straight, He would have blessed those ministries that promised it could happen. But He didn’t. And they all closed up shop. And in the end, the largest (Exodus) came right out and said “It doesn’t work.”

            If you are calling yourself ex-gay, I feel sorry for you. I spent decades believing like you that God would take away my desires for the same sex. But He didn’t. Because that would go against how He made me.

            You can bury it, but deep down you know the truth. And what I’m saying is striking a nerve. I know EXACTLY what you are going through. I know the “slip-ups” you make followed by the crying, guilt, and repentence, and promises never to do it again. I know EXACTLY what you are going through. And I know how it will end. You will either come out or kill yourself.

          • ezekiel22

            No really you do not know. You see it is not about me it is about you. You have given yourself no choice and by extension you offer others no choice. God has never worked that way. Read the book of Jeremiah as He did give Judah choices which they refused. You tried to do all of the work yourself to make yourself acceptable to God. Don’t worry as it will never happen. He is the one that has made all acceptable to Him should they accept His offer unconditionally and repent. Judging by what you wrote you know that that is not easy and costs a lot of pride.

          • OnlyMyHumbleOpinion

            I must have hit a nerve. You turned it totally back on me. My friend, I am a born-again Christian. I was saved at 16. Not once have I ever doubted my salvation from that amazing day. I’m not mad at God. He saved me.

            I’m mad at the people who told me that only straight people go to Heaven and that “God hates fags.” And I’m mad at Exodus International for telling me that I could be straight if I prayed enough and worked at it hard enough.

            When that didn’t happen, they blamed my “lack of faith.” And I almost killed myself. As a tiny bit of vindication, they soon closed and admitted their ministry never worked for anyone.

            Today, I attend a Bible-believing church with my boyfriend (soon to be husband) that preaches Christ’s salvation through repentance and grace.

            And don’t worry, I know I am acceptable to God because He made me this way. Many churches have sinned mightlly in God’s eyes by shunning the LGBT community. He has given me a calling to reach out to them with Christ’s perfect message of love through salvation.

            Is sex outside of marriage a sin? Yes. Which is why I and my boyfriend are excited about marriage equality coming to this country.

            You want to see God’s power. Just look around you. Watch what he blesses and watch what he curses. His glory is evident for all to see, my friend.

            If you are gay and married to a woman, you are living in sin. my friend. You have “exchanged your natural desires for the unnatural.” I committed the same sin when I married a woman. God did not bless that marriage of MANY years for that reason.

            Your desires for men have NEVER gone away no matter how hard you’ve prayed about it. You CHOOSE to sleep with your wife (as I did), but you are sexually attracted to men, not women. You might even “love” her like I thought I did. It was only when I accepted who God made me to be did I fall in love for the first time in my life. I now realize, that based on what I have now, the “love” I thought I had with my wife was just “strong friendship.” True love, that which is blessed and created by God, will blow you away.

            But you can choose to deny how God made you. You can choose to “fight” the urges that never go away. But you are sinning against your wife and God.

          • QuadGMoto

            I am a born-again Christian.

            A) “Born again” means leaving your old life behind. You proudly proclaim that you have not done so.

            B)

            For if we go on sinning deliberately after receiving the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins, but a fearful expectation of judgment, and a fury of fire that will consume the adversaries. Anyone who has set aside the law of Moses dies without mercy on the evidence of two or three witnesses. How much worse punishment, do you think, will be deserved by the one who has trampled underfoot the Son of God, and has profaned the blood of the covenant by which he was sanctified, and has outraged the Spirit of grace? For we know him who said, “Vengeance is mine; I will repay.” And again, “The Lord will judge his people.” It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.
            — Hebrews 10:26–31

  • http://tpbuchanan.com tpbuchanan

    Yes, indeed, let us busy ourselves with anything else but dealing with hard truths. Let us focus on social justice, feeding the poor, filling the backpacks of poor kids with food enough to feed their families for the weekend. Why should we trouble ourselves with the more difficult tenets of Christianity that make our heads hurt? Let us do ANYTHING except deal with hard inflexible truths, even though it’s the ONE thing we are commanded to do–go and make disciples. It would be good if Christians would stop taking MT 7:1-2 out of context like the world does, and bashing one another with it, realizing that we are to judge rightly–not never judge. It’s interesting that those who most vehemently condemn righteous judgment, are themselves the harshest judges.

    • OnlyMyHumbleOpinion

      spoken by a true Pharisee.

      • thisoldspouse

        No, spoken like someone who has actually honestly read their Bible.

        • Kevin Hickey

          Ha Ha Ha!!!

        • Azima Khan

          It’s not everyone’s cup of tea.

        • OnlyMyHumbleOpinion

          Pharisees knew the Bible better than anyone, so I agree. It was their interpretation and application that caused them problems with Jesus.

          • QuadGMoto

            And you make arguments from silence to contradict clear condemnations exactly like the Pharisees did.

            And he said to them, “You have a fine way of rejecting the commandment of God in order to establish your tradition! For Moses said, ‘Honor your father and your mother’; and, ‘Whoever reviles father or mother must surely die.’ But you say, ‘If a man tells his father or his mother, “Whatever you would have gained from me is Corban”’ (that is, given to God)— then you no longer permit him to do anything for his father or mother, thus making void the word of God by your tradition that you have handed down. And many such things you do.”
            — Mark 7:9–13

          • OnlyMyHumbleOpinion

            Exact opposite my friend. Do you even read the scriptures you post? Basically, you just called yourself a Pharisee LOL!

            YOU are the one rejecting God’s word to establish your “tradition.” God has torn down the “tradition” of anti-gay bigotry that has plagued his church. You, sir, are the one being spoken of in that verse.

            I don’t even have to refute you anymore. You are doing quite well against yourself LOL!

          • QuadGMoto

            God has torn down the “tradition” of anti-gay bigotry that has plagued his church.

            Then you should have no trouble quoting chapter and verse.

            Now these Jews were more noble than those in Thessalonica; they received the word with all eagerness, examining the Scriptures daily to see if these things were so.
            — Acts 17:11

            I’m waiting… (and have been for more than a month.) The closest you have ever come is an argument from silence, and even that doesn’t answer where Jesus’ definition of sexual immorality (which He condemned) comes from or why you still consider beastiality a sin.

          • OnlyMyHumbleOpinion

            And you answer from an argument of misinterpretation and inference.

          • QuadGMoto

            You cannot produce any Scripture to back up your claim.

            For such men are false apostles, deceitful workmen, disguising themselves as apostles of Christ. And no wonder, for even Satan disguises himself as an angel of light. So it is no surprise if his servants, also, disguise themselves as servants of righteousness. Their end will correspond to their deeds.
            — 2 Corinthians 11:13–15

            But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach to you a gospel contrary to the one we preached to you, let him be accursed. As we have said before, so now I say again: If anyone is preaching to you a gospel contrary to the one you received, let him be accursed.
            — Galatians 1:8–9

          • JBenning

            @QuadGMoto: Mr. OnlyMyHumbleOpinion thinks he is a born again Christian. His lies prove him and those like him to be a fool.

          • Truth Offends

            Just b/c OMHO calls himself a “born again Christian” does not mean he actually “thinks” he is.
            The devil is a liar.

          • Drew Humberd

            No one is telling the truth!

          • Truth Offends

            I tell the truth.

          • Drew Humberd

            But if you didn’t, how would I know?

          • JBenning

            Well, that is a crock of crap. His Word will NOT change. The Bible is still against queerdom (aka homosexuality) and it always will be no matter how many times the queers try to change the Bible so they can try to remove any guilt they might feel. And speaking of pharisee’s …. OnyMyHumbleOpinion seems to be the biggest Pharisee of them all.

          • OnlyMyHumbleOpinion

            Calling the truth “crap” does not make it any less true, friend. You and your hoakie websites crack me up. They remind me of “The National Enquirer” and have about as much truth and usefulness.

          • JBenning

            What’s the matter? You afraid of viewing the real truth about queers and they mistreat others? Wake the hell up. Victims of Gay Bullying is here to stay. You may end up being a part of it.

          • OnlyMyHumbleOpinion

            The funniest part of your little website is how you try to portray bigots as victims. You are so deluded, my friend.

          • JBenning

            Funny thing is, we have the proof that queers are the real intolerant bigots who hate the truth and anyone who dares to stand up and tell the truth. Queenie’s act like little girlie victims when it is they who victimize others because they won’t go along with the perversion. And speaking of be deluded, the only way you would know if I’m deluded is for you to have experienced or are experiencing it as we speak. Now let me see, your argument was…………..what exactly?

          • PropheticExplorer

            You have to have a seared mind to think everyone who knows scripture must be a Pharisee, what a weak argument :p

      • JBenning

        Every knee shall bow, every tongue confess Him as Lord. Someone needs to Bible 101. Try this…..instead of trying to form God into your image, try letting God form you into His image. Oh, wait, you won’t be a queer anymore. Just ask those that have walked away from the perversion.

        • OnlyMyHumbleOpinion

          No one has ever walked away, friend. That’s the thing you need to learn.

          • JBenning

            Sure they have. They call them “ex-gays” just like those who walked away from alcohol. We call them ex-drunks. Just because you don’t want to leave doesn’t mean others won’t. Your thing is that you believe that ‘no one can change’. People can change. You know this, I know this and so do others. You are scared your friends won’t like you anymore. Oh well, you will have better friends.

          • OnlyMyHumbleOpinion

            I can choose not to have gay sex but I cannot choose to be straight. Know the difference, friend.

          • JBenning

            Actually you can choose to do both. For someone who told me they were a born again Christian, you lied to me. It is you who needs to learn the difference AND the fact that both are possible. Ask those that have walked away. You know who they are. I get the feeling you would rather follow some shallow idiot like Dan Savage with his “it gets better” routine. Hasn’t worked yet and never will.

          • OnlyMyHumbleOpinion

            No one is ex-gay. And it does get better once a gay teen gets away from your bigotry.

          • JBenning

            Who are you trying to convince…me or you? You are wrong and you know it. For someone who said he was a born again Christian, you know nothing about the Bible; you are spiritually blind in every sense of the word, a bigger bigot than those you call a bigot, and when a teen walks away from your smut perverted lifestyle, they tend to live not only a happier life but live longer. Then again if we use your failed logic, there is no such thing as an ex drug user, no ex drunks, no ex killers, no ex anything unless, of course it is something a queer queenie comes up with. Did I leave anything out?

            Too bad you are a liar and a bigot. Your brain fell out and you have been playing with it for far too long. Grow a pair and man up. Oh, wait, I’m talking to a child. My bad.

          • OnlyMyHumbleOpinion

            Keep going! My friends and I have a bet on the next unchristian insult you throw. Hurry! I’ve got $20 on this next post! So far, your bigotry has made me $43!

          • JBenning

            You enjoy your money. Gambling is against God’s wishes moron. And all this time you were trying to sell me on the idea that you were a born again Christian. Liar! Oh, FYI, your money won’t buy heaven and it won’t keep you out of hell. Enjoy it now cause you can’t take it with you.

          • OnlyMyHumbleOpinion

            My treasures are laid up in Heaven, friend. You are fun to play with though because your posts are so devoid of truth it makes me laugh.

          • JBenning

            What a hoot! You have no treasures in heaven. Daydreaming wont make it happen. You cannot be gay and be born again Christian at the same time. Throw away your precious “queen james bible” and walk away from your perversion and you might make it. Otherwise, all you have is a dream that will become a nightmare for all eternity. You’ve lied so much I doubt if you even know right from wrong. It is you who is devoid of truth. Lies are not truth. You can’t even begin to spin your lies fast enough to make them truth. Thanks for trying tho. Drop the lies and man up.

          • OnlyMyHumbleOpinion

            Drop your self-righteous hate and man up.

    • helligusvart

      I agree, but social justice and feeding the poor are important, too. Read James 2:14-17. Or for that matter, the entire epistle.

    • Carlos Santiago

      TP I’m glad you bring up tenets of faith which bears repeating, We are saved by the graciousness of God. We are not saved by works but by belief in Jesus Christ alone. Anything else that you attempt to add to grace necessary for salvation is heretical. Peace

      • The Walking Cuban

        Sir I must disagree. Nowhere in scripture does it say we are saved by grace only.

  • aCultureWarrior

    Don’t be afraid to use the word “homosexual”, as there is nothing “gay” (happy) about the immoral, disease ridden ‘deathstyle’ that you left behind Matt. That being said: Are you not aware that Christianity can be anything that you want it to be? (that is if you hate God). Yes, proud and unrepentant adulterers can now call themselves “Adulterous Christians”. Those having sex with a close relative can call themselves “Incestuous Christians”. The list goes on and on and we owe it all to those that call themselves “Homosexual Christians”.

    • OnlyMyHumbleOpinion

      Red Herring and desperate. You forgot “bestiality Christians” LOL.

      • aCultureWarrior

        My my, aren’t you a adulteryphobic, incestuousphobic, bestialityphobic bigot. What makes your chosen sin so special?

        • Truth Offends

          He’s not averse to adultery. He’s a man who divorced his wife (of, I believe, 20+ yrs) so that he could “marry” a homosexual man.

          • aCultureWarrior

            You use the word “man” loosely.

          • Mikey Heinrich

            I think the thing I enjoy most about the comment threads here are the spiteful little self righteous posts that are almost always posted behind pseudonyms. Way to go, Christians, that’s the real message of the Bible- Spread hate on the internet without using your real name.

          • ezekiel22

            I have found that people like to use words like hate and bigotry on those that disagree with them. Sad that people are so afraid of discourse. I have an issue with gays and their supporters spewing so much hate and bigotry themselves while accusing others. I call that hypocritical. Man or woman laying with the same gender is condemned in the Bible. It is also a fact that people have been forgiven of that sin when they confess that sin. A drunk repents of his sin and they are forgiven freely just as a whoremonger.

          • Mikey Heinrich

            So, Mr. Zekiel, just to clarify – You believe ‘whoremonger’ to be helpful discourse and not hate…

          • ezekiel22

            Yes actually I do. It is listed in Romans as well as it is an occupation called pimping. Most would declare that a pimp is lower than a snake but that is not the point I was making was it.

          • Mikey Heinrich

            Yes, that does seem helpful to a national dialog between people of different faiths and beliefs. How did I not see that before.

          • QuadGMoto

            A problem cannot be solved until it is clearly and accurately identified.

          • Mikey Heinrich

            Oh, Believe me Mr Moto,

            A casual glance through the threads here is all it takes to clearly identify the problem.

          • QuadGMoto

            And what problem is that? What is your proposed solution?

          • Mikey Heinrich

            Well, skipping directly to your second question, the solution is clearly to stop expecting any productive conversation to come from people with nothing better to do than post smug little hate notes on the internet while hiding behind anonymous screen names.

            Fortunately that’s fairly easy to do.

          • QuadGMoto

            So please, do explain how explaining to someone what leads to eternal punishment and how to avoid it is “hate”.

          • Mikey Heinrich

            It’s adorable that you think that that’s what you’re doing

          • QuadGMoto

            It’s adorable that you think a warning of danger is not a warning of danger.

          • Mikey Heinrich

            Yes, all the most effective warnings are delivered anonymously to a comment thread full of people who already agree with you. :)

          • QuadGMoto

            You mean you, OnlyMyHumbleOpinion, vorpal, Persephone Sixty-Six, and others who agree with you all agree with me?

            Hmmm…

          • Mikey Heinrich

            Speaking only for myself, i’m just here to watch the crazy.

        • OnlyMyHumbleOpinion

          Irrelevant. Homosexuality is not a sin.

          • Truth Offends

            God calls men having sex with other men a sin, or more precisely, an “abomination” and said that those who engage in that behavior should be put to death.
            The devil is a liar.

          • QuadGMoto

            To add to that, idolatry—the “number one” sin in Scripture—is also called “abomination”.

          • Kevin Hickey

            Isn’t that pre- New Covenant?

          • QuadGMoto

            Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: neither the sexually immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor men who practice homosexuality, nor thieves, nor the greedy, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God.
            — 1 Corinthians 6:9–10

            That’s New Covenant.

          • Kevin Hickey

            I don’t see the word “abomination” in there.

          • QuadGMoto

            So? Are you having a problem understanding “will not inherit the kingdom of God”?

          • Kevin Hickey

            So, you purposely picked that verse because it’s in the New Testament. You’re a cherry picker.

          • QuadGMoto

            It’s showing what is always wrong in contrast to what was only for the Nation of Israel.

          • Kevin Hickey

            It also doesn’t say anything about “the number one sin”.

          • QuadGMoto

            IDOLATRY

            • WICKED PRACTICES OF

            —Human sacrifices (Leviticus 18:21; 20:2-5; Deuteronomy 12:31; 18:10; 2 Kings 3:26, 27; 16:3; 17:17, 18; 21:6; 23:10; 2 Chronicles 28:3; 33:6; Psalm 106:37, 38; Isaiah 57:5; Jeremiah 7:31; 19:4-7; 32:35; Ezekiel 16:20, 21; 20:26, 31; 23:37, 39; Micah 6:7)

            —Practices of, relating to the dead (Deuteronomy 14:1)

            —Licentiousness of (Exodus 32:6, 25; Numbers 25:1-3; 1 Kings 14:24; 15:12; 2 Kings 17:30; 23:7; Ezekiel 16:17; 23:1-44; Hosea 4:12-14; Amos 2:8; Micah 1:7; Romans 1:24, 26, 27; 1 Corinthians 10:7, 8; 1 Peter 4:3, 4; Revelation 2:14, 20-22; 9:20, 21; 14:8; 17:1-6)

            • OTHER CUSTOMS OF

            —Offered burnt offerings (Exodus 32:6; 1 Kings 18:26; Acts 14:13)

            —Libations (Isaiah 57:6; 65:11; Jeremiah 7:18; 19:13; 32:29; 44:17, 19, 25; Ezekiel 20:28)

            —Libations of wine (Deuteronomy 32:38)

            —Libations of blood (Psalm 16:4; Zechariah 9:7)

            —Meat offerings (Isaiah 57:6; Jeremiah 7:18; 44:17; Ezekiel 16:19)

            —Peace offerings (Exodus 32:6)

            —Incense burned on altars (1 Kings 12:33; 2 Chronicles 30:14; 34:25; Isaiah 65:3; Jeremiah 1:16; 11:12, 17; 44:3; 48:35; Ezekiel 16:18; 23:41; Hosea 11:2)

            —Prayers to idols (Judges 10:14; Isaiah 44:17; 45:20; 46:7; Jonah 1:5)

            —Praise (Judges 16:24; Daniel 5:4)

            —Singing and dancing (Exodus 32:18, 19)

            —Music (Daniel 3:5-7)

            —Cutting the flesh (1 Kings 18:28; Jeremiah 41:5)

            —Kissing (1 Kings 19:18; Hosea 13:2; Job 31:27)

            —Bowing (1 Kings 19:18; 2 Kings 5:18)

            —Tithes and gifts (2 Kings 23:11; Daniel 11:38; Amos 4:4, 5)

            • ANNUAL FEASTS (1 Kings 12:32; Ezekiel 18:6, 11, 12, 15; 22:9; Daniel 3:2, 3)

            • OBJECTS OF

            —Sun, moon, and stars (Deuteronomy 4:19; 2 Kings 17:16; 21:3, 5; 2 Chronicles 33:3, 5; Job 31:26-28; Jeremiah 7:17-20; 8:2; Ezekiel 8:15, 16; Zephaniah 1:4, 5; Acts 7:42)

            —Images of angels (Colossians 2:18)

            —Animals (Romans 1:23)

            —Gods of Egypt (Exodus 12:12)

            —Golden calf (Exodus 32:4)

            —Brazen serpent (2 Kings 18:4)

            —Net and drag (Habakkuk 1:16)

            —Pictures (Numbers 33:52; Isaiah 2:16)

            —Pictures on walls (Ezekiel 8:10)

            —Earrings (Genesis 35:4)

            —See SHRINE

            • DENUNCIATIONS AGAINST (Genesis 35:2; Exodus 20:3-6, 23; 23:13; 34:17; Leviticus 19:4; 26:1, 30; Deuteronomy 4:15-23, 25-28; 5:7-9; 11:16, 17, 28; 12:31; 16:21, 22; 27:15; 28:15-68; 30:17, 18; 31:16-21, 29; 32:15-26; 1 Samuel 15:23; 1 Kings 9:6-9; Job 31:26-28; Psalm 16:4; 44:20, 21; 59:8; 79:6; 81:9; 97:7; Isaiah 42:17; 45:16; Joel 3:12; Jonah 2:8; Micah 5:15; Habakkuk 1:16; Acts 15:20, 29; 17:16; Romans 1:25; 1 Corinthians 6:9, 10; 8:1-13; 10:7, 14, 20-22; 1 John 5:21; Revelation 21:8; 22:15)

            —See ICONOCLASM

            • WARNINGS AGAINST, AND PUNISHMENTS OF (Deuteronomy 17:2-5; 2 Chronicles 28:23; Nehemiah 9:27-37; Psalm 78:58-64; 106:34-42; Isaiah 1:29-31; 2:6-22; 30:22; 57:3-13; 65:3, 4; Jeremiah 1:15, 16; 3:1-11; 5:1-17; 7; 8:1, 2, 19; 13:9-27; 16; 17:1-6; 18:13-15; 19; 22:9; 32:35; 44; 48:8; Ezekiel 6; 7:19; 8:5-18; 9; 14:1-14; 16; 20; 22:4; 23; 44:10-12; Hosea 1:2; 2:2-5; 4:12-19; 5:1-3; 8:5-14; 9:10; 10; 11:2; 12:11-14; 13:1-4; 14:8; Amos 3:14; 4:4, 5; 5:5; Micah 1:1-9; 5:12-14; 6:16; Zephaniah 1; Malachi 2:11-13)

            • PROPHECIES RELATING TO (Exodus 12:12; Numbers 33:4; Isaiah 2:18, 20; 17:7, 8; 19:1; 21:9; 27:9; 31:7; Jeremiah 10:11, 15; 51:44, 47, 52; Ezekiel 43:7-9; Hosea 10:2; Micah 5:13; Zephaniah 2:11; Zechariah 13:2)

            • FOLLY OF (Exodus 32:20; Deuteronomy 4:28; 32:37, 38; Judges 6:31; 10:14; 1 Samuel 5:3, 4; 12:21; 1 Kings 18:27; 2 Kings 3:13; 19:18; 2 Chronicles 25:15; 28:22, 23; Psalm 96:5; 106:20; 115:4, 5, 8; 135:15-18; Isaiah 2:8; 16:12; 36:18; 37:19; 40:12-26; 41:23, 24, 26-29; 43:9; 44:9-20; 45:20; 46:1, 2, 6, 7; 47:12-15; 57:13; Jeremiah 2:28; 10:3-16; 11:12; 14:22; 16:19, 20; 48:13; 51:17; Daniel 5:23; Hosea 8:5, 6; Habakkuk 2:18, 19; Zechariah 10:2; Acts 14:15; 17:22, 23, 29; Romans 1:22, 23; 1 Corinthians 8:4, 5; 10:19; 12:2; Galatians 4:8; Revelation 9:20)

            — Orville J. Nave, Nave’s Topical Bible

            “Number one sin” summarizes how frequently it is condemned in the Bible.

          • Kevin Hickey

            Now you’re just lying. You said “number one sin” because it was the 1st Commandment and you know it.
            I pity those who have to listen to you on a daily basis.
            You’re a know-it-all.
            People like you are the number one reason why I’ll never be religious.

          • QuadGMoto

            So now you’re claiming to be a mind reader?

            I said “number one sin” because Bible makes such a huge deal about it.

            People like you are why I can never be an atheist; proud of your ignorance and hating those who are not as ignorant as you.

          • Kevin Hickey

            Here, I’ll help:

            “The graven images of their gods you are to burn with fire; you shall not covet the silver or the gold that is on them, nor take it for yourselves, or you will be snared by it, for it is an abomination to the LORD your God.

            Deuteronomy 7:25-26

          • QuadGMoto

            “Abomination” means immoral, wrong, sin. It’s always wrong to do something that’s an abomination.

          • chillinout.

            So you wish to kill gay people?

          • Truth Offends

            You obviously know essentially nothing about God, the Bible, or Christianity!

          • chillinout.

            Nor do I care about your glorified toilet paper, answer the question yes or no, otherwise, shut up bigot

          • QuadGMoto

            You should, since you will be bowing before God someday. You can either do that as a friend or an enemy. It’s your choice.

          • chillinout.

            Who’s God? Your god? Allah? Buddha? I’ll live my own life as I wish, and you’ll accept that

          • QuadGMoto

            The true God, revealed in the Bible. (I recommend the book I Don’t Have Enough Faith To Be an Atheist for an explanation of how we can know it’s actually true.)

            I accept that you will live your life as you wish. I’m just pointing out that you will bear the consequences, and you won’t like it.

          • chillinout.

            The Quran says you’re lying, and that we should kill all people like you.
            You don’t accept the life I live or we wouldn’t be having this discussion. Your worldview is based on unfounded and unreasonable “beliefs”, mine is based on real life experiences and facts. Try understanding your “beliefs” amount to less than mine

          • QuadGMoto

            Did you miss the “how we can know it’s actually true” part?

          • Truth Offends

            Anger issues much?

          • chillinout.

            Ignorance and deflection much?

          • Kevin Hickey

            …not to mention shellfish.

          • QuadGMoto

            Wrong. Answered below.

          • Kevin Hickey

            Blasphemer.

          • QuadGMoto

            Here’s a good explanation of what the Bible means by “Abomination”:

            Abomination

            From the broadest perspective an abomination is something loathsome and repulsive according to one’s cultural and religious values. For the Egyptians the Israelites were an abomination because they were shepherds, an occupation they despised (Gen 46:33–34). For the Israelites an abomination was ritually unclean food (Deut 14:3). For the fool it is turning away from evil (Prov 13:19); and for the wicked and righteous it is each other (Prov 29:27).

            From the biblical perspective an abomination callously disregards and actively disdains the values God has established. It affronts God’s holiness, sovereignty as Creator and purposes expressed in the Law. There is an irony in the image of abomination. It is not chosen in brazen rebellion against God, but is perceived within the values of the offender as the good and right thing to do. Thus the sacrifice of the wicked (Prov 15:8), the prayer of the lawbreaker (Prov 28:9) and blemished sacrifice (Deut 17:1) are abominations, although their practitioners do not perceive themselves as committing an abomination. Idolatry and its related immorality (Deut 27:15; Jer 13:27; Rev 17:4–5) and witchcraft and sorcery (Deut 18:10–12) characterize dismissal of God’s sovereignty. Failures of God’s people to separate from pagan practices that are in conflict with the Law (Ezra 9:1) are abominable, as are such practices as lying, arrogance, evil plans, murder (Prov 6:16–19; Rev 21:27) and sexual aberrations (Lev 18:6–23). Images of peril accompany abomination, for those committing abominations are subject to the wrath and judgment of God (Ezek 7:1–4).

            The ultimate image of abomination is the Abomination of Desolation, an image of horror from 167 B.C. when Antiochus IV Epiphanes placed an altar to Zeus on the altar of God in the Jerusalem temple (Dan 9:27; 11:31; 12:11; 1 Macc 1:54, 59; 2 Macc 6:1–2). For Judaism and Christianity this abomination was paradigmatic and prophetic of an evil, pagan individual or force arrayed against God and his people and usurping God’s rightful worship by desecrating the temple. In the Gospels, Rome’s destruction of Jerusalem and the temple (Mt 24:15; Mk 13:14; Lk 21:20) was just such an abomination. This abomination underlies the eschatological images of the man of lawlessness (2 Thess 2:3–4), the antichrist (1 Jn 2:18; 4:3), the great whore (Rev 17:4) and the beast (Rev 13).

            — “ABOMINATION,” Dictionary of Biblical Imagery

          • garybryson

            When are you going to start putting homosexuals to death there truth boy?

          • aCultureWarrior

            I think we can both agree that it’s an absolutely filthy disease ridden perversion with a ruthless child indoctrinating agenda. How’s that?

          • OnlyMyHumbleOpinion

            Sorry, try again. I’ll give you a hint: think marriage equality.

          • aCultureWarrior

            Ok. let’s talk “equality” in marriage. Incestuous marriages, multiple partner marriages (which 3 lesbo’s in Taxachusetts did already), necrophiliac marriage, bestial marriage (a guy in Florida is in “love” with his dolphin), etc.
            If you want marriage “equality” open up the flood gates to everyone and everything, right?

          • OnlyMyHumbleOpinion

            Such nonsense. Stop parroting propaganda and read the law, friend.

    • vorpal

      Why is it that trash like you loves to jump on a soapbox about issues like this and prove the depths of your ignorance, which could all be avoided if you did just a few minutes of basic fact-checking about the etymology of the word “gay”.

      As for the rest of your post, hilarious.

  • OnlyMyHumbleOpinion

    There is no such thing as ex-gay. And to claim otherwise is to question God’s creation. That’s one way we know that God made us this way: we can’t change it because we are only human.

    Look at the facts:

    1. Have you not ever noticed that the MAJORITY of those who hit the national spotlight announcing they are ex-gay, eventually get caught in “gay activities?” Focus on the Family learned that one the hard way. And Matt has even been called out by the media.

    2. Every major ex-gay ministry has gone out of business. And the largest one, Exodus, ADMITTED it didn’t work right before they closed their doors. God does NOT bless ex-gay therapy and never has. In fact, this type of “torture” (for lack of a better word) only leads to deep depression, guilt, and suicide by the participants. I know this firsthand.

    God made straight people. God made gay people. And He loves them both, unconditionally. If only Christians would do the same.

    • Truth Offends

      You are not God. Only God knows if He did or didn’t “bless” certain therapies.
      To say “we can’t change” doing what God calls “abominable” acts, is to call God a liar. “With God, all things are possible.”
      The devil is a liar.

      • OnlyMyHumbleOpinion

        I am not God. But if those ministries were producing “fruit” they would have prospered. But as Jesus described them, they did not (like the fig tree) so they were burned.

        • Truth Offends

          Jesus did not describe conversion therapies.
          The devil is a liar.
          You call God a liar when you say people “can’t change” so as to stop doing what God calls “abominable” acts.
          The devil is a liar.

          • OnlyMyHumbleOpinion

            You are correct, Jesus never mentioned conversion therapies. Now you know why. They are not God-blessed. They are evil and dangerous, and in some cases, deadly. And you are correct, the devil is a liar. Why do you believe his lies about “ex-gay therapies”?

          • Truth Offends

            You are not God. You do not know if God blessed any “therapy” or not. And, contrary to what you may want others to believe, conversion therapy have not been determined to be “dangerous” or “deadly,” yet alone “evil”.
            The devil is a liar. You are the one who is spreading “lies,” NOT me!

          • OnlyMyHumbleOpinion

            Bigotry is a deceptive demon. Recognize it and call it out before it destroys you, friend.

          • Truth Offends

            You are bigoted against Christians who believe the word of God. The devil is a liar. The devil hates God and His perfect law. You advocate rebellion against God’s law against homosexual behavior.

          • OnlyMyHumbleOpinion

            Wrong again, friend. I love Christians who believe the word of God. I believe it, too. 100%. And yes, the devil is a liar and he hates God and his perfect law. I advocate only salvation to the lost and truth the ignorant.

          • vorpal

            I suggest you check out the mental health statistics for those involved in ex-gay therapies, and the website Beyond Ex-Gay.

    • TruthDetector

      You have just called the God of the universe a liar.

      The Holy Spirit-inspired word of God on homosexual sin: “And that is what some of you were. But you were washed, you were
      sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and
      by the Spirit of our God.” 1 Cor. 6:11.

      I personally know dozens of former homosexuals who were, at one time, completely, 100% sexually attracted to the same sex and, through the transformational power of the Holy Spirit, found complete, life-giving freedom from demonic homosexual bondage. Like Matt Moore, not all will find total freedom from SSA, but many have. You can be an ex-gay denier until you’re blue in the face, but those who have found total freedom simply snicker at your flat-earth-like denial of reality. And then they pray for you. They know. They’ve experienced it. They’re free. It makes you look silly and foolish. You are a mouthpiece for the world and the prince of of the world, not for Christ.

      What’s so sad is that the strong delusion you have been given is so powerful that you’re unable to even see it.

      As scripture clearly states, many of those who were formerly caught-up in the homosexual sin lifestyle are now totally free – even happily married. Christ has truly blessed their faithfulness and willingness to fully surrender there lives and their lusts to Him.

      You labor under great, demonic deception. To claim to be a Christ follower and to engage in such overt apostasy indicates that, regrettably, you have been “given over to a reprobate” mind, which Romans says eventually happens to the homosexual who persists in his rebellion against God and engages such disordered sexual immorality. Better to have a milestone around your neck and be tossed into the sea than to continue to lead others into the eternal death that, lest you repent, you will surely face.

      All those with the Spirit can see it, yet you cannot, which further suggests that you may indeed have tragically been completely “given over” to the demonic spirit of homosexuality already. Jesus loves you and wants you to have a true relationship with Him – to return to Him – but you must , as Matt describes above, put your sinful lusts aside and put Him first.

      We love you enough to beg of you, repent, ask forgiveness and be saved. I and others are praying fervently for you.

      • OnlyMyHumbleOpinion

        God is not a liar. To suggest it is blasphemy, my friend. God is the same yesterday, today and tomorrow. And He has not changed His view on homosexuality. It was not until 1946 when the word even entered the Bible (mistakenly) by us humans.

        You stated that you “know” many ex-gay people. I believe you do. In fact, I used to be ex-gay as well. Everyone thought I was “cured” because I told them I was. I got married and had a son. But I was, and always was, gay. I fooled everyone, including my wife. And, yes, gay men can easily have sex with women if they want.

        But you cannot hide what God created forever. You can’t deny God’s design. I went through reparative therapy with Exodus International and it almost killed me (suicide). You cannot repent of being gay just as much as you cannot repent of being straight.

        I will say it again. There is no such thing as ex-gay.

        • PropheticExplorer

          The word ‘Homosexuality’ is not in the bible, Sodomite is.

          • QuadGMoto

            Actually, it is, twice. In the original Greek it is “arsenokoites”. Just as homo (male) – sexual (sexual) is joined to communicate that concept, arsen (male) – koites (sexual) is joined to carry the same concept. The most well known occurrence of that word is in 1 Corinthians 6:9.

          • PropheticExplorer

            Actually it’s not:

            Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,
            1 Corinthians 6:9 (KJV)

          • QuadGMoto

            The King James was translated prior to the word “homosexual” being coined in English. That meaning is clearly there in the Greek used by Paul in his writing.

            (Note: I updated my previous comment.)

          • PropheticExplorer

            Which is why my original statement stands. Here, let me capitalize the words your reading comprehension skills miss:

            ” THE WORD ‘Homosexuality’ is not in the bible, Sodomite is.”.

            Did that help at all?

          • QuadGMoto

            What about this translation?

            Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor homosexuals, nor thieves, nor the covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers, will inherit the kingdom of God.
            — 1 Corinthians 6:9–10

          • PropheticExplorer

            That is one of the many corrupted translations in English. The only uncorrupted version in print today is the King James and the word ‘homosexuality’ doesn’t appear there. That’s not to say the idea isn’t there.

          • QuadGMoto

            Uh huh. And what of the original languages?

            Would you say that “homosexual” is an inaccurate translation of “arsenokoites”?

          • PropheticExplorer

            Of course not. It was you who decided to nitpick my words which were accurate.

          • QuadGMoto

            Would you say it’s a less accurate translation of arsenokoite than the KJV?

          • Drew Humberd

            Homo does not mean male.

          • OnlyMyHumbleOpinion

            And sodomite means “citizen of Sodom.” Learn your scripture before you try to use it in a debate, friend. This kind of post makes you look ignorant.

          • PropheticExplorer

            Right, the Sodomites were all destroyed for what the citizens of Sodom did with each other. Rationalize much? :p

          • chillinout.

            You mean their inhospitality and greed? Rationalize who those people are? ;)

          • PropheticExplorer

            That was all a part of why they were destroyed. Look champ, go get yourself a Webster’s dictionary and look up the word ‘Sodomite’ and argue with them. SMH.

          • chillinout.

            Once again, a “bibilical Christian” doesn’t know the ins and outs of their own false bible. That’s rich. Argue with a wall, your intelligence is about the same

          • PropheticExplorer

            The definition of the word ‘Sodomite’ is in Webster’s dictionary genius, so I wouldn’t go making comments about other people’s intelligence if I were you.

          • chillinout.

            It certainly is, and it encompasses a majority of heterosexuals and Americans as well. I’m still waiting for God to destroy San Francisco, Seattle, Boston, New York, Philadelphia, Denver, Minneapolis, Burlington, Chicago, Madison, Santa Fe, Oakland, Los Angeles, Portland, Austin, Charlotte, St.Louis, and over 55% over this.

          • PropheticExplorer

            When it happens you will remember this conversation. America is going to burn.

          • chillinout.

            You’re a vile and openly stupid man. This is why “Christians” shouldn’t be allowed to vote or influence the public sphere in any way shape or form. God didn’t burn America for slavery, the klan, or for murdering 95% of Native Americans in the name of religion, but he’ll burn America for allowing gay men to marry. Maybe he’ll just burn you and your family in a house fire, it’d be much more effective ;)

          • PropheticExplorer

            Thanks for proving my point so eloquently.

          • QuadGMoto

            God didn’t destroy Sodom until there was less than 10 relatively righteous people left in the city. Why would you expect God to be in a bigger hurry than that? Heck, why would you want to push that ratio?

          • QuadGMoto

            just as Sodom and Gomorrah and the surrounding cities, which likewise indulged in sexual immorality and pursued unnatural desire, serve as an example by undergoing a punishment of eternal fire.
            — Jude 1:7

          • ezekiel22

            What did the men of Sodom want to do with the angels that they refused to do with Lot’s daughters? Try again.

          • QuadGMoto

            They did not know they were angels.

          • ezekiel22

            That was not the question. Nice deflection though; )

          • QuadGMoto

            That wasn’t a deflection. It strengthens the point you’re trying to make.

          • ezekiel22

            Sorry my bad I apologize.

          • chillinout.

            The were actually raping women throughout the city, the murdered, stole, and treated each other miserably. But none of that mattered I guess, only that there were gay people. Afterall, how else can your justify your stupidity and ignorance. Try again.

          • QuadGMoto

            What’s your evidence for that?

          • chillinout.

            Might be that fake book you call the bible. I know you only live by a few cherrypicked quotes though

          • QuadGMoto

            So you’re just asserting something you don’t actually know. Okay then…

          • Drew Humberd

            So…it’s wrong to have sex with men, but okay to throw your daughters to the rapists?

    • ezekiel22

      You lie. God will not make someone to sin. Creating one to have no choice but to sin makes God a liar and worse.

      • OnlyMyHumbleOpinion

        I agree with you. Homosexuality is not a sin.

        • ezekiel22

          Do not put words in my mouth. Man laying with man is considered a sin. God does not make one to sin which homosexuality is. Are you clear?

          • OnlyMyHumbleOpinion

            I say this in respect, but you are scripturally ignorant. Study the scripture before you spout the propaganda the other bigots told you. The Bible does not condemn homosexuality at all.

          • QuadGMoto

            Again, dead, flat wrong.

            On the point of homosexuality, the Scriptures are very, very clear:

            So God created man in his own image,
            in the image of God he created him;
            male and female he created them.

            And God blessed them. And God said to them, “Be fruitful and multiply and fill the earth and subdue it, and have dominion over the fish of the sea and over the birds of the heavens and over every living thing that moves on the earth.”
            — Genesis 1:27–28

            Obeying this command is only possible in heterosexual marriage.

            “But from the beginning of creation, ‘God made them male and female.’ ‘Therefore a man shall leave his father and mother and hold fast to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh.’ So they are no longer two but one flesh.”
            — Mark 10:6–8

            And he said, “What comes out of a person is what defiles him. For from within, out of the heart of man, come evil thoughts, sexual immorality, theft, murder, adultery, coveting, wickedness, deceit, sensuality, envy, slander, pride, foolishness. All these evil things come from within, and they defile a person.”
            — Mark 7:20–23

            Here is where part of that definition of “sexual immorality” comes from:

            You shall not lie with a male as with a woman; it is an abomination.

            “Do not make yourselves unclean by any of these things, for by all these the nations I am driving out before you have become unclean, and the land became unclean, so that I punished its iniquity, and the land vomited out its inhabitants.
            — Leviticus 18:22, 24–25

            If a man lies with a male as with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination; they shall surely be put to death; their blood is upon them.

            And you shall not walk in the customs of the nation that I am driving out before you, for they did all these things, and therefore I detested them.
            — Leviticus 20:13, 23

            Notice that in both these instances, God punished the people the Israelites were to drive out because they committed these sins (not just homosexuality). That means it is a moral issue that applies to all humanity, not just the nation of Israel.

            For this reason God gave them up to dishonorable passions. For their women exchanged natural relations for those that are contrary to nature; and the men likewise gave up natural relations with women and were consumed with passion for one another, men committing shameless acts with men and receiving in themselves the due penalty for their error.
            — Romans 1:26–27

            Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: neither the sexually immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor men who practice homosexuality, nor thieves, nor the greedy, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God. And such were some of you. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God.

            “All things are lawful for me,” but not all things are helpful. “All things are lawful for me,” but I will not be dominated by anything. “Food is meant for the stomach and the stomach for food”—and God will destroy both one and the other. The body is not meant for sexual immorality, but for the Lord, and the Lord for the body. And God raised the Lord and will also raise us up by his power. Do you not know that your bodies are members of Christ? Shall I then take the members of Christ and make them members of a prostitute? Never! Or do you not know that he who is joined to a prostitute becomes one body with her? For, as it is written, “The two will become one flesh.” But he who is joined to the Lord becomes one spirit with him. Flee from sexual immorality. Every other sin a person commits is outside the body, but the sexually immoral person sins against his own body. Or do you not know that your body is a temple of the Holy Spirit within you, whom you have from God? You are not your own, for you were bought with a price. So glorify God in your body.

            Now concerning the matters about which you wrote: “It is good for a man not to have sexual relations with a woman.” But because of the temptation to sexual immorality, each man should have his own wife and each woman her own husband. The husband should give to his wife her conjugal rights, and likewise the wife to her husband. For the wife does not have authority over her own body, but the husband does. Likewise the husband does not have authority over his own body, but the wife does.
            — 1 Corinthians 6:9–7:4

            Let us walk properly as in the daytime, not in orgies and drunkenness, not in sexual immorality and sensuality, not in quarreling and jealousy. But put on the Lord Jesus Christ, and make no provision for the flesh, to gratify its desires.
            — Romans 13:13–14

            just as Sodom and Gomorrah and the surrounding cities, which likewise indulged in sexual immorality and pursued unnatural desire, serve as an example by undergoing a punishment of eternal fire.
            — Jude 1:7

          • OnlyMyHumbleOpinion

            Once again (sigh), your misinterpretation of scripture is just that.

            And your stubborness and love of bigotry will be your downfall unless you repent, friend.

          • QuadGMoto

            “misinterpretation”? Like what? “[m]ake no provision for the flesh”? “[E]ach man should have his own wife and each woman her own husband”?

            Please, by all means, explain how quotations are “misinterpretation”.

          • OnlyMyHumbleOpinion

            You wear me out. We’ve already been over this, friend.

          • QuadGMoto

            You just assert then run away. That’s why it continues.

    • Larrie Argent

      Well said. Ditch the myths and prejudices of the OT and the world would be a better and saner place for all.

  • QuadGMoto

    Well said, Matt!

  • Scott Stroman

    Matt, that was an awesome essay. As a married straight man, I have never been sure how to reach out to gay friends and acquaintances with my testimony on the love of Christ. You have taught me much. God bless.

  • chillinout.

    Another brainwashed “ex-gay” trying to make all gay people feel inferior and force conversion of all gays into a faux straight lifestyle like his. Fact is, he’d still like to take it up the butt and no “religion” is going to change his natural sexuality, it’ll just make him hate himself and end any possibility of having a loving emotional and sexual relationship. But hey, as long as it make all the bitter white hetero-fascist men feel better about their menial lives, they must never cease to drip ignorance and prejudice

    • S_O_T_A

      And the ‘tolerance’ just gushes from your comment… /sarc

      I suggest you invest in a mirror!

      • chillinout.

        You can’t be tolerant of intolerant people. Homophobic bigots have no place in society what so ever

    • ezekiel22

      When it comes to hate you do take the cake. I feel sorry for you.

      • chillinout.

        I feel sorry for your kids, and anyone who has ever had the displeasure of interacting with you

  • Steven Schwartz

    Well, then I suppose I should tell all my GLBT Christian friends to give up their faith, as that might well be better for their mental health than trying to live in enforced celibacy or a faked opposite-sex relationship.

    Or they can keep believing what they believe, and ignore what you have to say.

  • Kevin Hickey

    Matt, I need to ask you a question. Have you ever eaten at Red Lobster? I’m worried about your soul, Matt. Please, Matt, avoid eternal damnation and get down on your knees! Beg forgiveness for eating the abominable shellfish!

    • QuadGMoto

      Is Matt a Jew living in the promised land prior to the New Covenant?

      • Kevin Hickey

        Apparently he’s alive today, so chances are slim.

        • QuadGMoto

          Then he has nothing to worry about re. shellfish.

          • Kevin Hickey

            Ahhh, I see. That’s very convenient. We can just throw out all of that Old Testament stuff. At least when it’s convenient to do so.

          • QuadGMoto

            And the LORD spoke to Moses and Aaron, saying to them, “Speak to the people of Israel, saying, These are the living things that you may eat among all the animals that are on the earth.
            — Leviticus 11:1–2

            Everything in the waters that does not have fins and scales is detestable to you.
            — Leviticus 11:12

            And he said to them, “Then are you also without understanding? Do you not see that whatever goes into a person from outside cannot defile him, since it enters not his heart but his stomach, and is expelled?” (Thus he declared all foods clean.)
            — Mark 7:18–19

            The next day, as they were on their journey and approaching the city, Peter went up on the housetop about the sixth hour to pray. And he became hungry and wanted something to eat, but while they were preparing it, he fell into a trance and saw the heavens opened and something like a great sheet descending, being let down by its four corners upon the earth. In it were all kinds of animals and reptiles and birds of the air. And there came a voice to him: “Rise, Peter; kill and eat.” But Peter said, “By no means, Lord; for I have never eaten anything that is common or unclean.” And the voice came to him again a second time, “What God has made clean, do not call common.” This happened three times, and the thing was taken up at once to heaven.
            — Acts 10:9–16

            The dietary laws were given only to “the people of Israel”. The New Testament explicitly says the dietary laws are not binding on Christians. Therefore, it is not simply whim or cherry picking.

          • Kevin Hickey

            VERY convenient. God changed his mind, eh?

          • QuadGMoto

            VERY convenient

            That you’re ignoring relevant details because you refuse to admit the truth? Absolutely!

          • Kevin Hickey

            Did god change his mind?

          • QuadGMoto

            It wasn’t sin. But it was law for the Nation of Israel.

            Try reading the FDA guidelines for shellfish sometime. There was very good reason to tell desert people God wanted to keep healthy not to eat it. There is a difference between “do this to stay healthy” and “this is wrong, always”.

          • Kevin Hickey

            Ahh, it wasn’t sin, it was LAW. I see now.

          • QuadGMoto

            I assume you live in the U.S. Should you be punished for something that is illegal in Zimbabwe, but not the U.S.? Why or why not?

          • Mikeyh0

            If you want a healthier body stay away from pork it can cause problems with your joints. And the lobster and shrimp and catfish are all bottom feeders. They eat the junk other fish won’t and so are full of bad stuff. I follow the health laws for the most part because. you know, the human body hasn’t changed since the Old Testament was written.

          • Drew Humberd

            If there is, then why is the prohibition worded in the same way in Leviticus?

          • QuadGMoto

            It’s not.

            Everything in the waters that does not have fins and scales is detestable to you.
            — Leviticus 11:12

            “Detestable” is “sheqetz” in Hebrew.

            “Of all that are in the waters you may eat these: whatever has fins and scales you may eat. And whatever does not have fins and scales you shall not eat; it is unclean for you.
            — Deuteronomy 14:9–10

            “Unclean” is “tame’” in Hebrew.

            You shall not lie with a male as with a woman; it is an abomination.
            — Leviticus 18:22

            “Abomination” is “to‘evah” in Hebrew.

          • Drew Humberd

            Ah, we’re translating from English to Hebrew now. I forgot the Bible was originally in English!

          • QuadGMoto

            Why are you being deliberately stupid?

            The different English words are being used because the original Hebrew words are different.

          • Kevin Hickey

            Was god wrong about shellfish?

          • QuadGMoto

            I assume you live in the U.S. Should you be punished for something that is illegal in Zimbabwe, but not the U.S.? Why or why not?

          • Kevin Hickey

            Waiting….
            waiting…
            waiting…

  • Persephone Sixty-Six

    I don’t understand gay Christians myself, but maybe bible quoting anti-gay bigots cherry pick as much as the gay Christians they criticize.

    • QuadGMoto

      If it’s cherry picking, then you should be able to quote a passage that says men having sex with men is just fine.

      Waiting…

      Waiting…

      Waiting…

      No? Why not? ‘Cause it’s not there!

      • Persephone Sixty-Six

        I never said it was there. Sober up and try that again.

        • QuadGMoto

          You said “cherry picking”.

          cherry pick

          to choose only the best people or things in a way that is not fair

          — Cambridge Idioms Dictionary, 2nd Edition

          In other words, you accused us of picking only the verses that said what we wanted, while ignoring contrary verses. If we actually did cherry-pick, then there should be contrary passages.

          So either show what those contrary passages are, or withdraw the false accusation.

          • Persephone Sixty-Six

            I said nothing about contrary passages, neither does the definition that you posted.

          • QuadGMoto

            That is what “cherry picking” means.

            But of course, with typical honesty, you will not retract your false accusation.

          • Persephone Sixty-Six

            There’s nothing false about it to retract. You clearly do not understand the definition that you posted.

      • Kevin Hickey

        Waiting

      • BillTheCat45

        Who cares if a book of fairy tales says what people should do. More and more people are waking up. Too bad, so sad, for you.

  • David

    Thanks Matt.

  • no more mr. nice guy

    Never in the history of mankind have so few done so much premeditated harm and caused so much orchestrated havoc for so many. Homosexuals account for a puny 2%-4% of the population. Yet they are being encouraged, expected and exalted when given free reign to spawn and spread deadly incurable sexually transmitted diseases in percentages astronomically and exponentially far in excess of their tiny shares of populations. And all of this hate is before considering the granddaddy of then all HIV/AIDS currently the number one infectious disease killer in the world.
    HIV/AIDS, rooted in perverted homosexual acts; behaviors; habits and hobbies, has killed 36 million human beings while infecting another 75 million since 1981. It is a full blown pandemic. It’s a promiscuity driven perversion spread by so called homosexuals whose promiscuities know no bounds and who have contaminating sex with heterosexuals. Surprised? Much has been concealed fro view.This is especially true for homosexual women. Then we have imbecilic non-existent man-made “sexual orientations” like transsexual; bi-sexual; and new and endless ever growing hallucinogenic “sexual orientation” concoctions so numerous and odious that the Sybil Complex and the Homosexual Complex are now Siamese twins.
    It is an irrefutable and immutable truth that monogamous men and monogamous women, absent drug addiction and contaminated blood, will NEVER BECOME HIV/AIDS infected and are just as unlikely to become infected with any sexually transmitted disease. Therefore, homosexual genitals are one of the deadliest weapons ever!
    Homosexuals and their creepy “sexual orientation” confederates and cabals are the ultimate Neutron Bombs and Neutron Bomb Carriers enabling the end of humanity as we know it without shots ever being fired. These pampered punks and prissy prima-donnas are the population controllers dream come true. Homosexuals are being played like stooges by the elites who are using them to help depopulate the earth beyond human powers to reproduce itself. Now that’s what terrorism looks like all camouflaged by lies so big and numerous that when incessantly repeated become believable. History is full to overflowing with deceitful and deadly examples.
    Homosexuality and “sexual orientation” are the biggest lies ever told. Homosexuality and for that mater heterosexuality don’t exist. What exists are men and women; boys and girls; penises and vaginas. Words like homosexual and heterosexual etc. are human concoctions tying to find justification for sexual confusion within and between men and women; male and female; and boys and girls.
    Sodomy is the homosexual monogamy. It’s what homosexuals do and it’s who they are. Sodomy isn’t sex because the mouth, tongue, lips, anus, rectum, and fecal matter laced penises aren’t sexual organs. Citing perversion as sex is saluting the lifeless and the lethal.
    Maybe in this dumbed down world people don’t know what Sodomy is. In the main sodomy is when one perverted hallucinogenic male pervert jambs his penis up into the anus of another perverted hallucinogenic male perverts fecal matter contaminated rectum thereafter having the jammers fecal matter contaminated penis sucked and licked by the jammed. Sodomy is easily the equivalent of playing in and eating from un-flushed fecal matter filled toilets. Only the moronic or the malevolent would dare call this an act of love!
    Then we have an ever growing number of foul; filthy; fecal; frenetic; fruitless and fatal haughty heathen homosexual habits and hobbies like: rimming;
    fisting; bare-backing; bug chasing; taking the express; fulsome street parades; circuit parties; golden showers; brown showers; rose budding etc. Homosexual pride means being proud of hateful perversion. The homosexual anus becomes so stretched and the opening so large that they could be used as parking garages for 18 wheelers. Pens; pencils; batteries; light bulbs; and all kind of rectum wrecking inanimate articles are frequently found inside the homosexual hide-away. One recent example when one homosexual jammed a wine bottle up inside his rectum. That’s hate not love.
    What makes this so malignant is that there is no such thing as a sodomy gene any more than there is a rapist gene; or an Eskimo nose rubbing gene; or a nicotine gene ; or an alcoholic gene; or a drug addiction gene; or an arsonist gene or a murderers gene or a gene for any dehumanizing behavior. The real question is
    why is sodomy and a ceaseless ever growing number of homosexual oriented perversions given the crutch of a genetic inheritance as protection to do [with premeditation] grave harm to themselves and humanity? Why aren’t all dehumanizing behaviors given the same preferential genetic inheritance excuse?
    If sodomy is genetic then why would the North American Man Boy Love Association have a marketing motto: “SEX BEFORE EIGHT OR IT’S TOO LATE”.
    And why would the lunatic Lesbian Avengers have a marketing motto: 2%-4% IS NOT ENOUGH RECRUIT! RECRUIT! RECRUIT! RECRUIT! The four successive redundant RECRIUTS were not accidental stutters. In fact the RECRUIT; RECRUIT; RECRUIT; RECRUIT is a hymn sung at homosexual perversion parades.
    We know that cigarette smoking is a cause for cancer especially lung cancer. I wonder why the cigarette companies didn’t concoct a nicotine gene lie to give their customers an out and to demonize those who knew the dangers of cigarette smoking not only to cigarette smokers but to non-smokers as well due to second- hand smoke.
    Perpetual hallucinating homosexual heathens and their hydra-headed henchman have sane human beings all wrong. We don’t want to stop you from what you do. Given your intoxicating insolence and refusals to be helped, we want you to do more of what you do because you do. When you do more of what you do, The fewer homosexuals there will be. That’s a good thing!
    We will no longer tolerate your incessant need to be validated as NORMAL. You are NOT NORMAL, NATURAL OR HEALTHY. Stop trying to force us to accept your pathetic lies. Homosexuality is to normal, natural and healthy sex what anorexia is to a normal, natural and healthy diets.
    Stay away from our children or Come Out-Come Out Wherever You Are might become the name of the final battle where you’re powers will be put to the ultimate test.

    • BillTheCat45

      Yawn. Keep crying and lying as the rest of the world passes you by.

      • S_O_T_A

        Boring. Reality wins. Homosexuality cannot be revered in a society that expects to survive.

        • vorpal

          Huh? Who said anything about homosexuality being revered?

          Why is it that Christians are incapable of anything but black-and-white thinking? Honestly, I mean completely incapable: I have yet to meet a Christian who, when shown that something doesn’t hold, doesn’t immediately start shrieking that the opposite must be true.

          Yes, we are rapidly moving to a place where LGBT are no longer condemned and demonized. No, this doesn’t mean that we are revering homosexuality: it simply means that LGBT people are being accepted for who they are.

          • S_O_T_A

            Sorry to break this to you, but reality IS black and white on this subject. The combination of male and female creates new life, and no other combination does. A society cannot continue to renew itself without realising that sexual combination sits well above all others.

            Therefore heterosexuality is the normal combination of sex, and all others abnormal. What you are extolling is the reverence of insanity.

          • vorpal

            I was talking about demonizing / revering as being the black-and-white concepts, but was to miss the boat, S_O_T_A!

            Sex is only very rarely about creating life, and we certainly have no obligation to do so; thus, sex is almost always about purposes other than procreation, and in some people, never about procreation.

            No, my refusal to simplify the world into black-and-white thinking and view it so naively is not insanity. Insanity is blind reverence and stubborn adherence to 2000 year old ideals like creationism in the face of mountains of evidence to the contrary, holding 2000 year old knowledge as the pinnacle of human achievement and superior to all knowledge accumulation since.

          • Dan

            It is irrational to think straight peole will stop making babies when the gender restriction is removed in the remaining states. You also ignore many gay people choose to reproduce, as well as adopt the unwanted, discarded children of straight couples. Adding a burden to same sex parent families provides no benefit to opposite sex parent families. It only harms same sex couples and their families needlessly.

            Legal equality does not require reverernce of any kind.

          • S_O_T_A

            The fact you even include the term ‘gay people’ or even ‘straight people’ in your reply makes your entire argument irrational. People’s sexual identity is either male or female and that combination makes the world go round. Trying to argue any other sexual combination is equal is absurd.

          • Ben Donelly

            People do not accept the LGBT movement at all, they’re just too scared to oppose it. The only rights they have been afforded were handed down by a legal system worthy of impeachment. It must pain you to know that nobody really accepts your behaviour at all. They tolerate it because they fear reprisal. If you want to know why, go and spend one night in an infectious diseases ward. That’s how the world really sees the LGBT movement. As a diseased people group cursed by God.

    • vorpal

      For someone who thinks that homosexuality doesn’t actually exist, you sure do love to go on and on about it, don’t you?

      Who is this nebulous “we” who will no longer tolerate our “incessant need to be validated as normal?” Do you mean the ever-shrinking anti-gay bigots like you who spew the most absurd, hateful bile about homosexuals and puff up your chests and strut about like self-important idiots when you’ve long ago lost the war? Your histrionic displays of ridiculous drama and certifiably insane misconceptions and lies about homosexuality only further drive anyone reasonable away from your side screaming with horror, and if you had any credibility, you shrieked it away long ago with your silly little proclamations and demonizations.

      You love to talk about sanity and what sane people do, when your own post is just a web of hateful contradictions, evidence of a sorely lacking education, mental illness, and unintended comedy gold.

      Yawn. Empty threats from anti-gay trash with nothing to back them up. It’s okay, cupcake. No one will force you to get same-sex married. I promise. Now, if you don’t mind, me and my supposed penis of mass destruction and biological warfare that makes nuclear bombs look like a slingshot by comparison will go and be happy in my 10 year monogamous same-sex marriage with my wonderful big gay husband. Your validation and that of your imaginary god is not required in the slightest.

      Big gay kisses, bitsy pookums!

      • no more mr. nice guy

        Your brain is made of cement. It’s all mixed-up and permanently set; showered with apoplexy and housed in a sewer.

    • vorpal

      Oh, and your clear obsession with gay sex has not gone unnoticed. Clearly you spend far, far more time thinking about gay anal lovemaking in this one post than I do in a whole month.

      Did you masturbate while writing this, or after?

    • no more mr. nice guy

      Do you know how to read? Or are you just another AIDS addled brain -washed robot reciting irrelevant and moronic homosexual taking points?
      Sodomy et al isn’t sex because the mouth, lips, tongue, anus and fecal matter laced penises aren’t sexual organs any more than the heart or lungs are sexual organs. Since sodomy isn’t sex, homosexuals do not exist. We have men and women; male and female; boys and girls.
      Moreover, if you read my entire comment, and your powers of discernment have not yet fully atrophied, you would know that we want you [and those homosexual perverts who are also impervious to reason; lacking in a functioning consciences; and invulnerable to regret] to sodomize your lives away. We want you to do what your misery loves company agenda and conversion to perversion malevolence compels you to do because then there will be fewer and fewer of you to cause havoc and horror.
      Actually, we are cheering you on as you drive drunk on your Anal Avenue inside your Anal Abyss. We will ,however, refuse to preside impotent when you try to force us to accept what you do; or when you attempt to employee pretense and propaganda on our children.
      Your anal obsessions are revulsions. We know that the anus is purposefully designed for exit only transactions. One should never drive their vehicles up exit ramps for the demented purpose of driving said vehicles North in Southbound lanes killing themselves and innocent others; causing major traffic back-ups and; driving car insurance rates skyward.
      Do such things on your private property. We must and will protect the “general welfare” versus the life hating and family destroying special interest homosexual hydra which is in reality trying to end humanity as we know it.
      All homosexual sex acts, behaviors, habits, and hobbies are premeditated attempted murder because they kill. Homo acts et al are like playing Russian Roulette with a 6 chamber revolver missing just 2 bullets.
      How is it ever an act of love to risk the lives of [up to 1,000 partners (strangers) for homosexual men and up to 500 partners (strangers) for homosexual women] every time perverted fecal matter contaminated anti-sex occurs? That’s not love. It’s hate!

      • vorpal

        LOL. Why don’t you try replying to someone other than yourself? We already have enough evidence of your clear mental illness.

        In terms of the rest of your comment, I’ll dignify it with the response that it deserves and in terms that maybe you can understand:
        DURRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR!!!

        There. I think that my reply holds about as much truth and intellectual value as your post.

    • no more mr. nice guy

      Gay???
      Grim; ghoulish; grotesque; grimy absolutely. Bur never gay.
      Sodomy isn’t love making.
      As I keep saying Sodomize more!

      • vorpal

        You know what’s fun? Knowing what you’re talking about and not sounding like an idiot! (Although clearly you had no concerns with that in your initial post, which read like the gay equivalent of a 9/11 Truther campaign.)

        Go read up on the etymology of the word “gay” as it pertains to homosexuality, but warning: you miiiight actually LEARN something, like the fact that sometimes, words have more than one meaning, and in this case, the fact that gay people didn’t choose the word gay for themselves any more than you bungling morons chose the term hypoChristian for yourselves.

        • no more mr. nice guy

          Yeah I know. 2+2 is always 4 for everyone except for the favored pampered and persecuted sodomite. For them 2+2 equals whatever number they need it to be whenever they need it to be whatever number they want – just like common core.

          • Dan

            No, gay people realize 1+1=2, and 2=2, but only 2=2.
            No restriction on gender required.

          • no more mr. nice guy

            Incoherent!

          • Dan

            For marriage, gay people realize 1+1=2, and 2=2, regardless of gender.

            But only 2=2. 100 is something entirely different.

  • BillTheCat45

    Cry Moore, lol.

    • BillTheCat45

      Another down vote with no response? Not surprising coming from the coward mythical sky god cultists, always the brave ones, lol

      • Mikeyh0

        There are better things to do than deal with your massive ignorance and sinful heart.

        • Kyle

          How does it feel to spend your life alone for Jesus? Hope it’s worth it.

          • Mikeyh0

            Beyond your understanding. Which is correctable.

          • Kyle

            Sure it is… That what you tell yourself when you fall asleep alone every night?

          • Kyle

            You positive? That what happened? You went crazy like Matt here and then f***ed up your chances of ever finding anyone decent to spend the rest of your life with?

  • Mikeyh0

    A superb insight from a fellow former homosexual who has been redeemed and forgiven through the sacrifice and forgiveness of Jesus Christ. God does not accept homosexual unions as anything but the sin they are. He CAN’T. Just as He cannot lie, He cannot approve of sin in any form from anyone. Repentance is the key. And almost impossible in our flesh bodies. Perhaps some have scaled that mountain but I still find that perfect walk elusive. God knows my heart and I trust His judgment. Matt Moore, may God bless you and your endeavors and I thank you for bravely revealing your heart and soul.

    • BillTheCat45

      Yeh good luck with that living in denial thing.

      Over 20 states now have equality. Seems like the battle is almost over, but hey, you can always move to Russia.

    • Kyle

      Matt doesn’t claim to be a former homosexual, his actions are not actually indicative that he is a former anything…

      • Doug Bristow

        Yes he claims to be a former homosexual/

        • Kyle

          No actually he doesn’t. Perhaps you should take some time to read his blog or look into his past for that matter. Just over a year ago, this “former homosexual” was found trolling for anonymous homosexual sex on the internet.

          • Doug Bristow

            prove it.

          • Kyle

            huffingtonpost [dot] com/tag/matt-moore-grindr/

            Yep, not so “former” after all…

          • Doug Bristow

            EVERYBODY believes the HuffPo! It is a bastion of journalism!

          • Kyle

            He admitted to using a homosexual sex app! He was caught red handed…

            dailymail [dot] co [dot] uk/news/article-2274526/Ex-gay-Christian-Post-blogger-Matt-Moore-admits-using-Grindr-app-changed-anti-homosexual-views.html

            gawker [dot] com/5981730/christian-post-blogger-who-wrote-about-leaving-homosexuality-found-cruising-for-dudes-on-grindr

            truthwinsout [dot] org/news/2013/02/33164/

          • Kyle

            Face it, he’s still a f@g Doug…

          • Doug Bristow

            And you are an atheist.

          • Kyle

            Well agnostic technically, just atheist with respect to the magical and nonsensical claims for just about every religion I have studied in any dept.

          • Kyle

            And hey, at least I’m not some self hating f@g pretending to be something I’m not. That would really suck… Gotta be a special kinda dead inside to do that…

          • Doug Bristow

            Same kinda dead that makes you an atheist.

          • Kyle

            Not even slightly dead inside in fact completely and totally alive inside and out! So sorry to disappoint you :)

          • QuadGMoto

            No one claims that temptation to sin ends when someone become a Christian. We still do the wrong thing sometimes. That is a fact of life. Be we are growing away from sin. So what’s your point?

          • Kyle

            My point is that he is clearly still homosexual, a so called former homosexual wouldn’t be searching for anonymous homosexual sex.

      • thisoldspouse

        Your statement raises the question of whether anyone can be a former anything. Are we hopelessly mired in any destructive character traits that we find ourselves? What a hopeless, and baseless, position to take.

        • Kyle

          Well, the research suggest that true so called ex-homosexuals are all but nonexistent and Matt’s behavior is certainly indicative of that fact.

  • no more mr. nice guy

    Bill the Cat
    Is it normal, natural and healthy for anyone to drive their vehicles up exit ramps in order to drive said vehicles North in Southbound lanes?

    • Mikeyh0

      But animals do it so it must be okay. The flaw is, of course, that animals cannot read or know right from wrong.

      • Dan

        It is just natural for them….
        If only they could read and misinterpret scripture.

        • Mikeyh0

          Somehow snide suits you.

  • Pingback: Happy Hour News Briefs | Mock Paper Scissors

  • Carlos Santiago

    So when Jesus said “do not judge” was he just kidding?

    • The Walking Cuban

      Context.

      Judge not, that ye be not judged. For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again. And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother’s eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye? Or how wilt thou say to thy brother, Let me pull out the mote out of thine eye; and, behold, a beam is in thine own eye? Thou hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother’s eye. (Matthew 7:1-5 KJV)

      He’s not contradicting himself, he’s condemning hypocritical judgment, and then there’s righteous judgment.

      Judge not according to the appearance, but judge righteous judgment. (John 7:24 KJV)

      Here it’s not hypocritical judgment that he sets against righteous judgment; here it’s judgment according to appearance vs righteous judgment.

      There’s more than one wrong way to judge. We are called to judge, and judge righteously at that.

      • Dan

        Judgement, condemnation, and punishment of gay people, in the name of Jesus, is still His job, not yours.

        Galatians 5:14: The entire law is summed up in a single command: “Love your neighbor as yourself.”

        Matthew 7:12: So in everything, do to others what you would have them do to you, for this sums up the Law and the Prophets.

        • The Walking Cuban

          Brethren, if a man be overtaken in a fault, ye which are spiritual, restore such an one in the spirit of meekness; considering thyself, lest thou also be tempted. (Galatians 6:1 KJV)

          Is this not love?

          And if any man obey not our word by this epistle, note that man, and have no company with him, that he may be ashamed. Yet count him not as an enemy, but admonish him as a brother. (2 Thessalonians 3:14, 15 KJV)

          Is that not love?

          And of some have compassion, making a difference: And others save with fear, pulling them out of the fire; hating even the garment spotted by the flesh. (Jude 1:22, 23 KJV)

          What’s that?

          Them that sin rebuke before all, that others also may fear. (1 Timothy 5:20 KJV)

          It’s love.

          It is reported commonly that there is fornication among you, and such fornication as is not so much as named among the Gentiles, that one should have his father’s wife. And ye are puffed up, and have not rather mourned, that he that hath done this deed might be taken away from among you. (1 Corinthians 5:1, 2 KJV)

          These are not hate. Look at what this attitude, this judging, brought about for that man.

          But if any have caused grief, he hath not grieved me, but in part: that I may not overcharge you all. Sufficient to such a man is this punishment, which was inflicted of many. So that contrariwise ye ought rather to forgive him, and comfort him, lest perhaps such a one should be swallowed up with overmuch sorrow. Wherefore I beseech you that ye would confirm your love toward him. For to this end also did I write, that I might know the proof of you, whether ye be obedient in all things. To whom ye forgive any thing, I forgive also: for if I forgave any thing, to whom I forgave it, for your sakes forgave I it in the person of Christ; Lest Satan should get an advantage of us: for we are not ignorant of his devices. (2 Corinthians 2:5-11 KJV)

          Should I let satan get ahold of people? No.

          So thou, O son of man, I have set thee a watchman unto the house of Israel; therefore thou shalt hear the word at my mouth, and warn them from me. When I say unto the wicked, O wicked man, thou shalt surely die; if thou dost not speak to warn the wicked from his way, that wicked man shall die in his iniquity; but his blood will I require at thine hand. Nevertheless, if thou warn the wicked of his way to turn from it; if he do not turn from his way, he shall die in his iniquity; but thou hast delivered thy soul. (Ezekiel 33:7-9 KJV)

          Wherefore I take you to record this day, that I am pure from the blood of all men. For I have not shunned to declare unto you all the counsel of God. (Acts 20:26, 27 KJV)

          I have no problem with the verses you showed me or any of the rest of the bible. Do you?

          Dare any of you, having a matter against another, go to law before the unjust, and not before the saints? Do ye not know that the saints shall judge the world? and if the world shall be judged by you, are ye unworthy to judge the smallest matters? Know ye not that we shall judge angels? how much more things that pertain to this life? If then ye have judgments of things pertaining to this life, set them to judge who are least esteemed in the church. I speak to your shame. Is it so, that there is not a wise man among you? no, not one that shall be able to judge between his brethren? But brother goeth to law with brother, and that before the unbelievers. Now therefore there is utterly a fault among you, because ye go to law one with another. Why do ye not rather take wrong? why do ye not rather suffer yourselves to be defrauded? Nay, ye do wrong, and defraud, and that your brethren. (1 Corinthians 6:1-8 KJV)

          I must judge. To not judge, to not pull my brother out of the fire….. Is truly to condemn.

          • ezekiel22

            What you say is true. Unfortunately there are those that are posting on this thread that will deny people their free will to leave the gay way of life. If they did condone or allow it the mere fact of them leaving blows the whole God made me this way victimhood. It also empowers others to leave when they find out that there is a choice which is Christ Jesus.

          • The Walking Cuban

            Thing is those that call themselves Christians must stop focusing on THIS sin and condemn ALL sin. We can’t commit adultery, view pornography, fornicate, get drunk, cuss, all that other stuff, and expect to A) convince anyone of anything or B) expect to keep our own conviction.

          • ezekiel22

            I know. Reading the first chapter of First John bowled me over when I finally realized when he wrote the letter and what he had been through up to that time.

          • The Walking Cuban

            Elaborate please.

          • ezekiel22

            John wrote that letter when he was a very old man on the Island of Patmos. He had not only been with Christ as we all know. He had been persecuted for his faith being beaten, imprisoned, left for dead a couple of times as well as some other hideous tortures. He had established churches some of which we see the ruins of today. He was the only apostle to have died of natural causes. Through all of that he kept his humility to the point that he wrote that if we say that we do not sin we only delude ourselves and the truth is not in us. Here is a man that was revered and now is sainted that included himself totally with that statement. The only other thing I can say is WOW. It brings the life of the apostles into a clearer focus.

          • The Walking Cuban

            Very interesting. I’ve not studied john’s epistles yet, though I’ve read em a couple times, and have never heard those things you’ve told me, so it gives me even more reason to go ahead and study it. I am currently studying others though, and I’m not comfortable with those yet. So the Johns are next.

            Ok. I do have a comment and a question. Please don’t think I’m starting an argument. I take scripture very seriously.

            As for ruins of churches, the church is the people, not the place. As for sainthood, what do you mean?

          • ezekiel22

            Sorry it took this long to get back to you. The ruins of the churches I made mention of is from an archeological standpoint. I use it that way in context as a rference point.
            As for the term sainthood it is again a common reference point.
            I understand very well who and what the church is as well as who a saint is. I just try to use common terminology so that people can see what I am saying faster.
            I hope this helps.

          • The Walking Cuban

            I gotcha. I personally, now this is me and I recommend this attitude, try not to use phrases I don’t find in scripture. I get what you’re saying though, but if I encounter someone using those or other phrases, I use it as a teaching opportunity.

            For instance, an apostolic lady told me she doesn’t believe in the trinity. I said “it’s nowhere in the bible”, she said “exactly!” Then I said “but Godhead is” and I showed her. Now here’s a more common example: saved by faith alone. Or grace alone. I’d say it all day long if I could find it anywhere in the totality of scripture. But I can’t, so I don’t. So instead I say a man is justified by works and not by faith alone.

          • The Walking Cuban

            If any man speak, let him speak as the oracles of God; if any man minister, let him do it as of the ability which God giveth: that God in all things may be glorified through Jesus Christ, to whom be praise and dominion for ever and ever. Amen. (1 Peter 4:11 KJV)

            Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only. (James 2:24 KJV)

          • Dan

            You judge love as sin. Denial of marriage equality transforms that judgement into punishment.

            Your judgement and punishment rely on your belief committed relationships based on mutual love and respect, are sins.

          • The Walking Cuban

            Of course.

            So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God. (Romans 10:17 KJV)

            But the Lord said unto me, Say not, I am a child: for thou shalt go to all that I shall send thee, and whatsoever I command thee thou shalt speak. Be not afraid of their faces: for I am with thee to deliver thee, saith the Lord. Then the Lord put forth his hand, and touched my mouth. And the Lord said unto me, Behold, I have put my words in thy mouth. (Jeremiah 1:7-9 KJV)

            I’m not gonna make up stuff as I go. There is no biblical support any gay anything, and plenty scripture that condemns it. So let’s say I decide it’s ok anyway, and convince the church it’s ok, and we preach gayism. “Ism? Gay isn’t a religion!” Oh but it is. When you mix it with holy things, IT DOESNT WORK. You get something new:

          • The Walking Cuban

            And there was a man of mount Ephraim, whose name was Micah. And he said unto his mother, The eleven hundred shekels of silver that were taken from thee, about which thou cursedst, and spakest of also in mine ears, behold, the silver is with me; I took it. And his mother said, Blessed be thou of the Lord, my son. And when he had restored the eleven hundred shekels of silver to his mother, his mother said, I had wholly dedicated the silver unto the Lord from my hand for my son, to make a graven image and a molten image: now therefore I will restore it unto thee. Yet he restored the money unto his mother; and his mother took two hundred shekels of silver, and gave them to the founder, who made thereof a graven image and a molten image: and they were in the house of Micah. And the man Micah had an house of gods, and made an ephod, and teraphim, and consecrated one of his sons, who became his priest. In those days there was no king in Israel, but every man did that which was right in his own eyes. (Judges 17:1-6 )

            God will not accept what He did not authorize.

          • The Walking Cuban

            I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel: Which is not another; but there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ. But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed. As we said before, so say I now again, If any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed. For do I now persuade men, or God? or do I seek to please men? for if I yet pleased men, I should not be the servant of Christ. (Galatians 1:6-10 KJV)

    • ezekiel22

      When it came to judging others no. When it came to judging sin He was very serious. Do not forget who Jesus referred to as snakes and vipers as well as robbers, thieves, children of Satan, etc. Those are and were terms that definitely were judgmental. Homosexuality is a sin as this article plainly stated by one who was in the lifestyle. He also stated that Jesus saves us all by our repentance of that sin.

      • Dan

        Sexual orientation is not a lifestyle.
        Jesus never condemned gay people. He condemed harming others, not love.

        • ezekiel22

          Unfortunately you are mistaken in the first sentence. The fact that we are on this subject proves it. Condemning and judging is two very different things. You will note I said judgmental and not a word of condemnation. There is a difference. Condemnation is final whereas judgement is not.
          Jesus preached on this Earth as a rabbi which means that He accepted what was written in the Law and the Prophets as Holy and from God. In the Old Testament homosexuality was condemned as a sin and as an abomination. Jesus did preach as did John the Baptist the Gospel of repentance which means turning away from sin and to God on His terms not ours. It is not loving to sit around and watch others whether gay, drunks, addicts, pimps, hookers, thieves, or a whole bunch of other sins practice without at least saying something. The first chapter of Romans should tell one that. The first chapter of first john has even more to say about sin.

          • Dan

            Most gay people are aware of their sexual orientation long before they get a chance to act on it. Even those who do not have sex, still have a sexual orientation. The author, though not clear, indicates his orientation it still gay, though he tries not to act on it. But orientation is not a lifestyle. Gay people live a wide variety of lifestyles, including marriage.

            Your belief same sex relationships were prohibited based on verses that prohibited pagan ritual orgies with shrine prostitutes of both sexes and other abuseive relationships, ignores the difference betseen harmful relationships and those based on mutual love and respect.

            “What the Bible Really Says About Homosexuality” by Daniel Helminiask, PH.D., was ordained as a Catholic priest in 1967 and is incardinated in the Diocese of Pittsburgh. From 1981-1985 was Assoc Prof for Systematic Theology at Oblate School of Theology and earlier completed his Ph.D. in systematic theology at Boston College and Andover Newton Theological School. He concludes the Bible says absolutely nothing about homosexuality being sinful when you examine the actual Hebrew/Greek texts.”

          • ezekiel22

            Seems that there could be a problem when the Greek and Hebrew I have are opposed to what the PhD. says.

        • Ben Donelly

          Dan, Jesus does not condemn because he does not need to. It is because man stands ALREADY condemned that he requires the redemptive power of the Person and Work of Jesus Christ in his own life. That is why it is written that the Son of Man came to Save that which is Lost. Those who Know this life transforming power in their life, will testify, “I once was Lost but now I am found. I once was blind, but now I see.”

          What IS Love, Dan? What is Love without a standard to define it?

          When asked what the greatest commandment is, Jesus said, “You shall love the Lord your God with all of your heart, with all of your mind, with all your body and with all of your soul and the second is just like it, You shall love your neighbour as yourself. Upon these two commandments hang ALL of the Law and the Prophets.”

          “If you love me, you will keep my commandments.”

          There you have it, Dan. Jesus bore the punishment of sinful men to cancel the debt to God which sin creates, not to cancel the Law that identifies sin. Those who were once indebted to God are now free to worship him without the debt of sin hanging over them.

          Men are debt free with God but now indebted to Christ, thus to continue in the sin which separated us from God is to trample the blood of Christ whom purchased our Salvation.

          The man who is truly a believer will no longer find pleasure in the very things which separated him from his Creator. Though he may struggle to resist temptation, he now has One with him who will help him to overcome. His name is Jesus.

          • Dan

            You still rely on the belief committed relationships based on mutual love and respet, are sin.

            Harmful abuse of others is prohibited, but not love.

          • QuadGMoto

            When the One who defines what sin is says it is sin, then those “relationships” that fit His definition of a sin are sinful. There is no way around it.

          • Ben Donelly

            Dan, the Christian rejection of homosexuality and same sex marriage is based on the objective, propositional revelation of Scripture that teaches that the these things are sinful because they are contrary to the will of God. Therefore, the true Christian does not condemn sodomy and same sex marriage because of fear or hate but because his faith in Gods’ revelation requires him to do so.

            To reiterate, whilst there is a Christian appeal to arguments based on reason and natural law, this is unfortunately a surrender of the ultimate authority of Scripture. The leading reason Christians reject homosexuality is because the Bible teaches them to do so. It is unclear to me why a Christian would require another reason. Surely to move outside of our ultimate authority in order to defend the faith is to relinquish that ultimate authority and stand on something which is less than ultimate authority. It is better to be bold and forthright in defending Biblical morality that to appear dishonest and ashamed of the faith. I am not ashamed of the gospel for it is the power of God unto Salvation for All who believe.

    • Doug Bristow

      No but that does not apply.

    • Ben Donelly

      Carlos, that would be entirely dependent on which one we see ourselves as, the one with a beam in his eye or the one with a speck. Both need Gods redemptive power through the person and work of Jesus, which is precisely why we cannot Save each other Or ourselves. The key to this message is to understand the importance of what is being taught. The willingness to see the fault in others without seeing the faults in ourselves is what makes us hypocrites. A man who is physically blind Knows that he is blind but a man who is spiritually blind does Not. Thus Jesus demonstrated, the disobedient judging the disobedient is futile. Both stand condemned by the same Law. Both need The Saviour.

  • polymath156

    This is a good piece. The “issue” never is or was orientation, it has always been about who is God. If spiritual identity trumps sexual identity, peace prevails.

  • Nos Rob

    Yawn. Yet another post about homosexuality. You right-wing Christians
    think about it, write about it, shout about it, post about it and are
    generally more preoccupied with it far more than gay people themselves.

    • Doug Bristow

      That is because we want you to be free of it and all sin so you can live in the joy of Christ Jesus.

      • Dan

        It is your judgement that love and marriage are sins.

        • Doug Bristow

          You are once again wrong.

          It is the Judgment of God that homosexual love and marriage is an abomination and needs to be repented of and forgiven through The Blood of Christ.

          • Dan

            That is your chosen interpretation. Jesus never said any such thing.

            “What the Bible forbids is acts of lust, rape, idolatry, violation of religious purity obligations, or pederasty, but no condemnation of homosexuality in relationships of mutual respect and love. On the other hand, the Bible pointedly celebrates instances of same-sex emotional intimacy, a fact often overlooked by fearful homophobic readers.”
            James B. Nelson, Professor of Christian Ethics, United Theological Seminary.

          • Doug Bristow

            Every admonition in God’s Word against homosexuality is by Jesus.

            Unless you and your buddy James B. Nelson, Professor of Christian Ethics, United Theological Seminary, repent and turn your lives over to Christ Jesus, you will be with him for all eternity in Hell.

          • Dan

            Again, that is your personal judgement and condemnation, based on your choice of interpretation of scriptues that condemned pagan ritual orgies with shrine prostitutes of both sexes and a long list of harmful abuses of others, but not committed relationships based on mutual love and respect.

          • Doug Bristow

            ude 1:6-8

            New King James Version (NKJV)

            6 And
            the angels who did not keep their proper domain, but left their own
            abode, He has reserved in everlasting chains under darkness for the
            judgment of the great day; 7 as
            Sodom and Gomorrah, and the cities around them in a similar manner to
            these, having given themselves over to sexual immorality and gone after
            strange flesh, are set forth as an example, suffering the vengeance of
            eternal fire.

            8 Likewise also these dreamers defile the flesh, reject authority, and speak evil of dignitaries.

            ————————————–

            Jude 1:17-19

            New King James Version (NKJV)

            17 But you, beloved, remember the words which were spoken before by the apostles of our Lord Jesus Christ: 18 how they told you that there would be mockers in the last time who would walk according to their own ungodly lusts. 19 These are sensual persons, who cause divisions, not having the Spirit.

          • Dan

            Ezekiel 16:48-49: “This is the sin of Sodom; she and her suburbs had pride, excess of food, and prosperous ease, but did not help or encourage the poor and needy. They were arrogant and this was abominable in God’s eyes.”

            Abuse of others was the sin of Sodom. Sodom is a Golden Rule story about how you treat the stranger at the gate.
            Lust and pagan fertility orgies are the sins prohibited, not committed relationships based on mutual love and respect.

          • Doug Bristow

            1 Corinthians 6:8-10

            New King James Version (NKJV)

            8 No, you yourselves do wrong and cheat, and you do these things to your brethren! 9 Do
            you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God?
            Do not be deceived. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers,
            nor homosexuals,[a] nor sodomites, 10 nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners will inherit the kingdom of God.

            Footnotes:

            1 Corinthians 6:9 That is, catamites

          • QuadGMoto

            Try reading the Scriptures for yourself. On the point of homosexuality, the Scriptures are very, very clear:

            So God created man in his own image,
            in the image of God he created him;
            male and female he created them.

            And God blessed them. And God said to them, “Be fruitful and multiply and fill the earth and subdue it, and have dominion over the fish of the sea and over the birds of the heavens and over every living thing that moves on the earth.”
            — Genesis 1:27–28

            Obeying this command is only possible in heterosexual marriage.

            “But from the beginning of creation, ‘God made them male and female.’ ‘Therefore a man shall leave his father and mother and hold fast to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh.’ So they are no longer two but one flesh.”
            — Mark 10:6–8

            And he said, “What comes out of a person is what defiles him. For from within, out of the heart of man, come evil thoughts, sexual immorality, theft, murder, adultery, coveting, wickedness, deceit, sensuality, envy, slander, pride, foolishness. All these evil things come from within, and they defile a person.”
            — Mark 7:20–23

            Here is where part of that definition of “sexual immorality” comes from:

            You shall not lie with a male as with a woman; it is an abomination.

            “Do not make yourselves unclean by any of these things, for by all these the nations I am driving out before you have become unclean, and the land became unclean, so that I punished its iniquity, and the land vomited out its inhabitants.
            — Leviticus 18:22, 24–25

            If a man lies with a male as with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination; they shall surely be put to death; their blood is upon them.

            And you shall not walk in the customs of the nation that I am driving out before you, for they did all these things, and therefore I detested them.
            — Leviticus 20:13, 23

            Notice that in both these instances, God punished the people the Israelites were to drive out because they committed these sins (not just homosexuality). That means it is a moral issue that applies to all humanity, not just the nation of Israel.

            For this reason God gave them up to dishonorable passions. For their women exchanged natural relations for those that are contrary to nature; and the men likewise gave up natural relations with women and were consumed with passion for one another, men committing shameless acts with men and receiving in themselves the due penalty for their error.
            — Romans 1:26–27

            Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: neither the sexually immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor men who practice homosexuality, nor thieves, nor the greedy, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God. And such were some of you. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God.

            “All things are lawful for me,” but not all things are helpful. “All things are lawful for me,” but I will not be dominated by anything. “Food is meant for the stomach and the stomach for food”—and God will destroy both one and the other. The body is not meant for sexual immorality, but for the Lord, and the Lord for the body. And God raised the Lord and will also raise us up by his power. Do you not know that your bodies are members of Christ? Shall I then take the members of Christ and make them members of a prostitute? Never! Or do you not know that he who is joined to a prostitute becomes one body with her? For, as it is written, “The two will become one flesh.” But he who is joined to the Lord becomes one spirit with him. Flee from sexual immorality. Every other sin a person commits is outside the body, but the sexually immoral person sins against his own body. Or do you not know that your body is a temple of the Holy Spirit within you, whom you have from God? You are not your own, for you were bought with a price. So glorify God in your body.

            Now concerning the matters about which you wrote: “It is good for a man not to have sexual relations with a woman.” But because of the temptation to sexual immorality, each man should have his own wife and each woman her own husband. The husband should give to his wife her conjugal rights, and likewise the wife to her husband. For the wife does not have authority over her own body, but the husband does. Likewise the husband does not have authority over his own body, but the wife does.
            — 1 Corinthians 6:9–7:4

            Let us walk properly as in the daytime, not in orgies and drunkenness, not in sexual immorality and sensuality, not in quarreling and jealousy. But put on the Lord Jesus Christ, and make no provision for the flesh, to gratify its desires.
            — Romans 13:13–14

            just as Sodom and Gomorrah and the surrounding cities, which likewise indulged in sexual immorality and pursued unnatural desire, serve as an example by undergoing a punishment of eternal fire.
            — Jude 1:7

          • Dan

            Leviticus is mistranslated, and a cleanliness code about not lying in the lyings of a woman, meaning the menstural bed women were required to use during those times, and another prohibition on pagan fertility orgies with male and female prostitutes and others.

            The others are also about orgies and lustful abuses of others.

            Sodom is a Golden Rule story many mistranslate to justify contradicting the Golden Rule, as you demonstrate. You confuse gang rape and abuse, with committed relationsips based on mutual love and respect.

            “Several books already exist attempting to demonstrate that the Christian Bible does not, in fact, condemn consenting-adult homosexuality. But God is Not a Homophobe has a unique perspective in that the author has a lifetime of experience in pastoring hard-core fundamentalist churches. His former bitter opposition to all forms of homosexuality has given way to a rational, unbiased acceptance that the Bible says hardly anything about homosexuality, and what it does say cannot honestly be used to condemn consenting same-sex unions.” “God is not a Homophobe: An unbiased look at Homosexuality in the Bible” by Philo Thelos

          • QuadGMoto

            Are you an expert in ancient Hebrew? Where are your examples from other ancient writings showing those words used in the manner you’re claiming?

            I should point out that native speakers of both Ancient Hebrew and Greek translated the Old Testament Hebrew into Greek around 285 BC. Their Greek translation disagrees with you. (And other sources such as Homer use those exact same Greek words those translators used to indication sexual relations.)

            There’s nothing quite like adding things into a text to create a meaning you prefer.

            I certainly can’t stop you from willfully distorting what’s written. But the Author might have a few choice words for you.

          • Dan

            “What the Bible Really Says About Homosexuality” by Daniel Helminiask, PH.D., was ordained as a Catholic priest in 1967 and is incardinated in the Diocese of Pittsburgh. From 1981-1985 was Assoc Prof for Systematic Theology at Oblate School of Theology and earlier completed his Ph.D. in systematic theology at Boston College and Andover Newton Theological School. He concludes the Bible says absolutely nothing about homosexuality being sinful when you examine the actual Hebrew/Greek texts.”

          • QuadGMoto

            So? Robert A. J. Gagnon says differently. Here’s part of his CV:

            Robert A. J. Gagnon is Associate Professor of New Testament at Pittsburgh Theological Seminary. He came to PTS in the Fall of 1994 after a one-year position as Visiting Professor of Religion at Middlebury College in Vermont. He has a B.A. degree from Dartmouth College, an M.T.S. from Harvard Divinity School, and a Ph.D. from Princeton Theological Seminary. His main fields of interest are Pauline theology and sexual issues in the Bible. He is a member both of the Society of Biblical Literature and of the Studiorum Novi Testamenti Societas [Society of New Testament Studies]. He is also an ordained elder at a Presbyterian Church (USA) in Pittsburgh. He is the author of The Bible and Homosexual Practice: Texts and Hermeneutics (Nashville: Abingdon Press, 2001; 520 pgs.); co-author (with Dan O. Via) of Homosexuality and the Bible: Two Views (Minneapolis: Fortress Press, 2003; 125 pgs.); and, as a service to the church, provides a large amount of free material on the web dealing with Scripture and homosexuality. In addition, he has published scholarly articles on biblical studies in Journal of Biblical Literature, New Testament Studies, Catholic Biblical Quarterly, Novum Testamentum, Zeitschrift für die Alttestamentliche Wissenschaft, Horizons in Biblical Theology, and The Christian Century. He is also author of article-length encyclopedia entries in Dictionary for Theological Interpretation of the Bible (Baker/SPCK), New Dictionary of Christian Apologetics (IVP), Oxford Handbook of Evangelical Theology (Oxford University Press), and Encyclopedia of Christian Civilization (Wiley-Blackwell). In addition, he has been quoted in, or has written for, the New York Times, National Public Radio, CNN, U.S. News and World Report, Christianity Today, Christian Century, and other news outlets and popular magazines.

            But why battle with appeal to authority? Look at it for yourself. Here are the entries on the Greek word for homosexual (arsenokoites), male (arsen), and sexual intercourse (koites). The CL sections cover Classic Literature; in other words, non-biblical uses of those words. I challenge you to find any contradictory Greek Lexicon/Dictionary that bases that contradiction on how those words were used by sources from that time period of history.

            arsēn, male; thēlys, female; arsenokoitēs, male homosexual, pederast, sodomite.

            CL arsēn occurs in cl. Gk. from Homer onwards, sometimes in the Attic form arrēn (often in papyri, and also Philo, Josephus and Rom. 1:27 v.l.). (On the form see Funk ß 34 (2); Moulton, Grammar, II, 103.) It means male as opposed to female, thēlys (cf. Plato, Leg. 2, 9 p. 665c; K. Preisendanz, Papyri Graecae Magicae, I, 1928, 15, 18). thēlys is also found from Homer onwards as an adj. meaning female, but also with the art. meaning woman (e.g. Hdt. 3, 109; Xen., Mem. 2, 1, 4). On the phrase arsēn kai thēlys, male and female, cf. Plato, Rep. 454d; Aristot., Met. 988a 5.

            OT arsēn occurs some 54 times in the LXX [Septuagint] canonical and uncanonical writings, chiefly for the Heb. zākār. It appears in the phrase arsen kai thēly, male and female, in Gen. 1:27 (Heb. zākār ûneqēbâh) of the creation of male and female in the image of God (cf. also Gen. 5:2; 6:19 f.; 7:2 f., 9, 15 f.; Lev. 3:1, 6; 12:7, referring not only to man and woman but to the male and female of animal species in the flood story and in sacrifice). The male is referred to on his own in Gen. 17:14, 23 (the institution of male circumcision as the covenant sign); Exod. 1:16 ff., 22; 2:2 (Pharaoh’s attempt to exterminate the Israelites by destroying male infants); Exod. 12:5 (the Passover lamb had to be a male without blemish); and Lev. 1:3, 10; 4:23; 22:19; Mal. 1:14 (in connection with sacrifice); Lev. 6:29, 7:6 (of priests); Lev. 18:22; 20:13 (in condemnation of homosexual practices); Lev. 27:3, 5 ff. (in the valuation of the people); Num. 1:2; 3:40 (in the census of the people); Num. 31:17 f.; Jos. 17:2; Jdg. 21:11 f. (in historical narratives); Job 3:3; Isa. 26:14; 66:7; Jer. 20:15; 30:6; Sir. 33:26 (23); 2 Macc. 7:21; 4 Macc. 15:30 (of males generally). The references to the male and female correspond to those to man and woman generally in the OT. On the one hand, there is the recognition in Gen. of the divinely instituted parity in that man and woman together constitute the image of God, and their complementary roles in the transmission of life in both the human and the animal realm. On the other hand, there are certain roles (e.g. in receiving the covenant sign, in the priesthood, and in certain sacrifices) that only the male may fill.

            NT 1 The creative act in Gen. 1:27 is referred to in Matt. 19:4 par. Mk. 10:6 in connection with divorce. Jesus’ reply to the Pharisees takes it as the major premise for his teaching on marriage: “from the beginning he created them male and female.” This leads to the minor premise quoted from Gen. 2:24: “for this reason a man shall leave his father and mother [Matt. also gives ”and shall cleave to his wife“] and the two shall be one flesh” (Matt. 19:5; Mk. 10:7 f.). The conclusion is drawn: “So they are no longer two but one flesh. What therefore God put together, let not man put asunder” (Matt. 19:6; Mk. 10:8 f.). Gen. 1:27 is also referred to in 1 Clem. 33:5 and 2 Clem. 14:2.

            2 Lk. 2:23 tells how Jesus’ parents offered the sacrifice prescribed for males by Exod. 13:2, 12 at his birth (Bird).

            3 Paul’s use of arsēn is interesting in that it exhibits a tension between the creation ordinances and their abolition in the gospel age. By contrast the ungodly have abolished the creation ordinances for sexual relations in a way which can only bring judgment.

            (a) In Rom. 1:27 arsēn (v.l. arrēn) is used 3 times which RSV translates by “men”: “and the men likewise gave up natural relations with women and were consumed with passion for one another, men committing shameless acts with men and receiving in their own persons the due penalty for their error.” In this passage sexual perversion is seen as a result of (and to that extent as a judgment on) man’s sin in worshipping the creature rather than the creator. Because he has put something else in the place which can only properly belong to God, man’s natural relationships have become perverted. Josephus also pointed out that unnatural relations between males was punishable by death (Ap. 1, 199; cf. Lev. 20:13; 18:22, 29). On Rom. 1 generally, see G. Bornkamm, “The Revelation of God’s Wrath (Romans 1-3)”, Early Christian Experience, 1969, 47-70. Paul uses the noun arsenokoitēs, a male homosexual, pederast, sodomite (Marriage, art. koíth), as one who is excluded from the kingdom (1 Cor. 6:9) and condemned by the law (1 Tim. 1:10; cf. Gen. 19; Lev. 18:22, 29; 20:13; Deut. 23:17; Punishment).

            (b) On the other hand, Gal. 3:28 asserts that “There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free, there is neither male nor female; for you are all one in Christ Jesus.” This, however, is not a call to abolish all earthly relationships. Rather, it puts these relationships in the perspective of salvation history. As Paul goes on to say, “And if you are Christ’s then you are Abraham’s offspring, heirs according to promise” (Gal. 3:29; cf. also Rom. 10:2). All who are in Christ have the same status before God; but they do not necessarily have the same function. In the context of the circumcision question in Gal., the assertion is doubly relevant. For women could not be recipients of the sign which Judaizers were insisting as a prerequisite for full salvation. There may also be an underlying Adam-typology in the passage. Some rabbis asserted that Adam was originally androgynous (cf. J. Bligh, Galatians: A Discussion of St Paul’s Epistle, 1969, 326).

            4 Rev. 12:5, 13 takes up the imagery of Isa. 66:7 and Ps. 2:9 in the vision of the dragon’s attack on the woman with the male child: “she brought forth a male child, one who is to rule all the nations with a rod of iron, but her child was caught up to God and to his throne. . . . And when the dragon saw that he had been thrown down to the earth, he pursued the woman who had borne the male child.” Whereas the child is here clearly Christ, the woman, in the light of the following verses, represents the mother of Jesus and also the church whose other “offspring” are now pursued by the dragon.

            — “MAN,” New International Dictionary of New Testament Theology

            koitē, bed, marriage bed, intercourse.

            CL In secular Gk. koitē, besides its common meaning bed, connotes the marriage bed (Aeschylus, Sophocles). It was used also of the den of an animal or the nest of a bird as well as of a box or basket.

            OT In Wis. 3:13 the word is used in the phrase hētis ouk egnō koitēn en paraptōmati (“who has not known intercourse in transgression”) to describe an illicit union. In Wis. 3:16 koitē occurs in combination with sperma in a sense similar to the use of sikbat-zera‘ (lit. discharge of seed) in Heb. where the connotation is that of coitus (Lev. 15:18; 18:20; 19:20; Num. 5:13; cf. Lev. 15:16 f., 32; 22:4; see further below). The Greek expression is modified by paranomou (unlawful) to connote the concept of illicit sexual congress. In Sir. 23:18 v.l. the word koitē occurs in the phrase pornos parabainōn apo tēs koitēs autou to describe “a fornicator who strays from his marriage bed.”

            In the LXX [Septuagint] koitē stands for a number of Heb. words, most frequently forms of the verb sākab, lie down. It represents the noun miskāb on numerous occasions with the basic meaning of bed, as the place of sleep or rest (e.g. 2 Sam. 11:13; 1 Ki. 1:47; Mic. 2:1). In Exod. 10:23 koitē represents the Heb. tahat, place, in the context of the plague of darkness on Egypt. The expression is probably used more generally in the Heb. than the LXX allows, for the word tahat may denote a place of sitting as well as lying. In Daniel the word miskāb is represented by koitē in the LXX and, in each instance, refers to the bed as a place of rest. In Isa. 56:10 koitē is used in the sense of rest in the phrase enypniazomenoi koitēn, dreaming of rest.

            The word koitē stands for several Heb. words that connote the home of an animal such as the Heb. rēbes (Jer. 50:6) which means sheepfold. The word also represents the verbal form rābas in the phrase koitēn poimniōn, fold of flocks, in Isa. 17:2. In Isa. 11:8 koitē stands for the Heb. me’ûrâh which connotes the den of a snake, and in Mic. 2:12 it represents the Heb. dōber, pasture. The noun mā‘ôn, lair, is represented by koitē in Jer. 10:22. And the noun me‘ōnâh, dwelling, lair, is represented by koitē in Job 37:8; 38:40. The word koitē is used of the sick bed in the LXX as in Ex. 21:18 where it represents the Heb. miskāb. See also Job 33:19; Ps. 41:3.

            In the LXX [Septuagint] koitē also stands for the Heb. sekābâh. The Heb. word can connote the idea of layer or deposit as in a layer of dew (Exod. 16:13, 14) as well as the act of lying. The word occurs in the latter sense in the phrase sikbat-zera‘ (lit. “a laying of seed”), a technical term in the Levitical legislation used to refer to the emission of semen. In Lev. 15:18 the expression sikbat-zera‘ occurs as the cognate accusative of sākab, lie, in a section describing the means of cleansing in the case of sexual defilement. Literally the statement says “If a man should lie with a woman ‘a laying of semen,’” and thus describes the act of “laying” in the sense of completion of coition. A similar usage of the expression occurs in Lev. 19:20; Num. 5:13. The word sekābâh seems to have another connotation in the same expression, however, for it is used in Lev. 15:16, 17 of emission of semen apart from coitus in which instance the word seems to be used in the sense of “deposit,” hence emission. The concluding statement to this legislative section (Lev. 15:32) uses the phrase sikbat-zera‘ to cover both instances of emission. The expression is used similarly in Lev. 22:4.

            The word miskab is represented by koitē in the LXX [Septuagint] in a number of instances where the connotation is that of bed in the sense of a place of rest but with associative sexual implications deriving from Levitical regulations relating to various forms of sexual impurity (Lev. 15:21, 23, 24, 26). In Prov. 7:17 the word is used of the harlot’s bed thus connoting in an implicit sense sexual intercourse. It is used similarly in Isa. 57:7 where the prophet berates the people for setting their beds on the mountains. The reference is to idolatry and hence is used also here in the sense of spiritual fornication.

            Frequently the word koitē reflects a distinctly metaphorical use of the Heb. miskāb as a surrogate for sexual congress as in Lev. 18:22; 20:13, where the word occurs in the plural construct state with ’issâh, woman. In Num. 31:17, 18, 35 and Jdg. 21:11, 12 koitē is used in a similar fashion in the expression yāda‘ miskab zākār, to know the bed of a male. The Heb. sekōbet is translated by koitē and also connotes the concept of copulation. It always occurs in construction with nātan, give. This expression occurs in Lev. 18:20, 23; Num. 5:20. In each instance the term connotes illicit sexual relationships.

            The word koitē also represents Heb. words connoting the marriage bed as Gen. 49:4 where miskāb is used, and 1 Chron. 5:1 where the Heb. word is yāsûa‘, a poetic word for bed.

            NT In the NT koitē occurs on 4 occasions. In Lk. 11:7 it is used in the sense of bed as a place of rest. In this context, an individual in Jesus’ parable protests that he cannot help someone who has solicited aid because he is in bed.

            In Rom. 9:10 the word occurs in the expression koitēn echousa, and is a euphemism for coitus, and, by expansion, conception and pregnancy. In this sense it is similar to the use of miskāb as a surrogate for coition, but no clear instance exists in Heb. where the word may connote the result of coition, i.e., conception. The theological point of the passage is that Rebekah conceived children “by one man, our forefather Isaac.” Yet before either of these male twins had done anything good or bad God in his divine sovereignty had decreed that “the elder shall serve the younger” (Rom. 9:12; cf. Gen. 25:23). The argument forms an important part of Paul’s case demonstrating to Jewish readers the consistency of divine sovereignty in the inclusion of the Gentiles in the people of God.

            The word koitē is used in the plur. in Rom. 13:13 in the sense of illicit sexual union. In this context the word is accompanied by such terms as revelling (kōmos), drunkenness (methē), and licentiousness (aselgeia), all of which are also in the plur. Believers are warned to avoid them, together with quarreling (eris) and jealousy (zēlos), “but to put on the Lord Jesus Christ, and make no provision for the flesh to gratify its desires” (Rom. 13:14).

            In Heb. 13:4 the word occurs in the sense of “marriage bed” as it does in the OT. In this context the writer affirms that the marriage relationship is an honourable one, and at the same time it is to be kept honourable.

            — “MARRIAGE, ADULTERY, BRIDE, BRIDEGROOM,” New International Dictionary of New Testament Theology

          • Guest

            Jesus said specifically that you’re absolutely not allowed to be a homosexual. Stop lying about Jesus.

          • Dan

            Sorry. You are the one speaking for Him, and promoting harm in His name.

            “What the Bible Really Says About Homosexuality” by Daniel Helminiask, PH.D., was ordained as a Catholic priest in 1967 and is incardinated in the Diocese of Pittsburgh. From 1981-1985 was Assoc Prof for Systematic Theology at Oblate School of Theology and earlier completed his Ph.D. in systematic theology at Boston College and Andover Newton Theological School. He concludes the Bible says absolutely nothing about homosexuality being sinful when you examine the actual Hebrew/Greek texts.”

          • Guest

            Spare me your insincere apologies, they’re offensive.
            Even if you are sorry I don’t care because I hate you.
            Don’t bother me with your nonsense from some heretic.
            You know you’re not allowed to be a homosexual.
            Someday you really will be sorry, but it’ll be too late.

        • Ben Donelly

          Dan, it is the judgment of the Holy Spirit inspired Word of God that every definition of love and marriage beyond the ultimate authority of the Scriptures, is sin. When out of step with the Spirit of God, the logical progression is to be out of step with His Eternal Word.

          America’s decline into depravity did not begin with the acceptance of homosexuality, it began with the break-down of the traditional God designed family unit through decriminalising adultery and legislating no-fault divorce. Aberrant sexual perversion is nothing more than a logical progression as proven with Sodom and Gomorrah. Sodom degenerated by steps of progression very similar to what we are observing today in the western world. The warning to flee sexual immorality was the last warning Sodom ever heard. Perhaps it will be the last warning America will hear.

          Sodom did not have the written law, so how much worse will the judgment be upon them who have not only rejected Gods Law but also rejected Christ whom died to pay the penalty for that sin which the Law has revealed to them?

    • Ben Donelly

      Nos, you are in every fashion, incorrect. Christians respond to the obsession the wicked have with pushing their wickedness because the Bible teaches them to do so. There is no other reason required. If the wicked were not obsessed with wickedness, there would be nothing for the Christian to respond to. Appointed to destruction, the wicked continue to walk toward destruction because God has chosen to withhold his mercy from them. We are appointed to eternal life, thus given eyes to see and granted repentance or we are appointed to suffer wrath and blinded to the reality of our condition. God created both vessels, those to honour him and those to dishonour him so that he might demonstrate compassion and mercy on those of His choosing and demonstrate his wrath and power over them who think they have the power or ability to stand against him.

      It was appointed before our birth, the time and place where we would be born, who our parents will be, whether we will be male or female and whether we are appointed to salvation or to damnation. If we are walking in wickedness, it’s what we were created to do. We can never walk in righteousness whilst God withholds his mercy from us. If that changes at any time in our future, it will only be the result of Gods decision to grant us repentance. The wicked have no desire to be saved because they are appointed to wrath. They do not seek God, they cannot seek God and they continually call ‘good’ that which is ‘evil.’

      Every now and again, God reminds us who is in control by smashing tidal waves down upon our coastlines and causing the earth to quake and volcanoes to erupt, destroying the puny little creations of men, showing us who is boss.

      Who can stand against him? We can try with all of our might, our wickedness only harms ourselves and men we are in contact with and our righteousness is but filthy rags, equal to the uncleanness of a woman’s flow absorbed by a menstrual cloth. Our blood is putrid and our flesh is rotten, destined to die, compared to the righteous blood of Christ which was shed to Save them whom God has already appointed before he created the heavens and the earth and all that is in them.

      There is only One ultimate purpose to life. To live or die in accordance with Gods ultimate plan and purpose. If we repent it is because God appointed us to salvation, if we do not, it is because God has appointed us to damnation and thus, withheld his mercy from us to demonstrate his wrath.

      We will die believing in Jesus Christ or we will not. Unless Christ stands outside our tomb where we lay dead in our sins and transgressions and calls us forth to eternal life, we will remain dead in our sins and transgressions, appointed only to wrath.

  • Bill Rogers

    Thank You Matt Moore for this wonderful article, I hope it helps many to find the peace of the gospel through faith and repentance.

  • ezekiel22

    Wow!!! What a testimony. This is worth sharing to all that call themselves gay. The Lord does change lives still as He has in the past. The first chapter of Romans states that some in Pauls audience were indeed gay. They were accepted in the church after repentance which is as it should be. As being covetous, a glutton, a drunk, or even a womanizer is a sin so is being gay yet the Lord loves us and accepts us when we repent.

    • Kyle

      The first book of the bible also says the the earth was created before light, that book isn’t known for it’s accuracy…

      • Doug Bristow

        Why is that a problem with you?

        • Kyle

          Because light predates the formation of our planet by about 9 billion years… Even if you do not believe in modern science, astrophysics and cosmology, the psychical laws of our universe as such that matter (the Earth) cannot predate light (energy).

          • Doug Bristow

            So the one who is the Creator of all, including the laws of physics is outside of the laws of physics? Wow, how cool is that?

          • Kyle

            Nothing which can interact within our universe can be outside of the laws of physics, that would be physically impossible. Magic doesn’t exist, even if you really, really want it to.

          • Doug Bristow

            God created it, He can do whatever He wants.

          • Kyle

            Because MAGIC!!1! Whenever you decide to stop deluding yourself with fairy tales, you’re welcome to join the rest of us here in reality! Reason awaits you :)

          • Doug Bristow

            You have my sympathy.

          • Kyle

            Hey, I’m not the one who still believes in magic, save some of that sympathy for yourself :)

          • Doug Bristow

            I don’t need it because I have salvation through Christ The Lord.

          • Kyle

            Because MAGIC!!1!! LOL! Grow up Doug, you got an imagination and hope in mystical nonsense nothing more, nothing less.

          • ezekiel22

            Kyle there have been miracles in the past which are evidenced today. You have to deny their existence because should you accept them as real you would have to admit that you are wrong. In other words you painted yourself into a corner.

          • Kyle

            What miracles in the past have been evidenced today? I deny the existence of magic because their is not a shred of evidence in favor of it and a mountain of evidence against it, so please spare me the you don’t believe because you don’t want to believe nonsense, the fact is that you believe because you want to, I don’t because there is no evidence.

          • ezekiel22

            Afraid ?

          • Kyle

            Of what? Your magical mythology… Not even a little! I’m also not afraid that I will be judged by an avatar of lord Vishnu either…

          • ezekiel22

            It is funny that you claim to not be afraid as the vehemence that you display to the belief others have betrays fear more than hated.

          • Kyle

            Is that projection I detect Zeky boy? Are you prehaps a little afraid to actually think critically and rationally about the mythological nonsense that you believe on faith?

          • Guest

            You’re a full breast of chicken.
            Bawk!

          • Kyle

            What? Did you forget to take your meds?

          • Guest

            Did you?

          • Guest

            Nuggets, bawk!!

          • Kyle

            Are you like a crazy person?

      • QuadGMoto

        Actually, it says the earth was created before daylight. (Bright and directional enough to define day and night.) It also does not state how long the Earth existed before the week described in Genesis 1. Therefore, that week reads to me like a terraforming project.

        • Kyle

          Oh, so it says let there be daylight? NOPE! The lengths that you people have to twist yourselves into apologetic knots in order to rationalize 3000 year old nonsense is really rather amusing, I must say.

          • QuadGMoto

            God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And there was evening and there was morning, the first day.
            — Genesis 1:5

          • Kyle

            In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth. Now the earth was formless and empty, darkness was over the surface of the deep, and the Spirit of God was hovering over the waters. And God said, “Let there be light,” and there was light

            So your god created light prior to creating light? Lol!

          • QuadGMoto

            Do you call light from the stars “Day”?

          • Kyle

            There were no stars until Genesis 15 and again way after the his creation of the magically lightless earth…

          • QuadGMoto

            Not necessarily. There are two possibilities. First, the phrasing of the Hebrew suggests assignment of purpose, not creation, a distinction lost in the translation to English. Second, to my knowledge, Hebrew does not have separate words for stars and planets. (Our English word “planet” comes from a Greek word meaning “wandering star”.) If that’s the case, then there’s a possibility that the planets of the solar system were created then but the Hebrew language didn’t allow for a more precise statement.

          • Kyle

            Again, apologetic knots that you need tie yourself in order to rationalize this nonsense are absolutely hilarious! It says right there in genesis 1 that he created earth before light, without light, and then he created light and saw that it was good and then after that he created stars…

          • QuadGMoto

            So let me get this straight. The original was written in Hebrew using the kind of simple language of appearance and standards of his day, but it’s inappropriate to analyze the writing by using anything other than English and modern scientific textbook standards?

            Does the word “anachronistic” mean anything to you?

          • Kyle

            If the stars referred to in Genesis 14 are planets, why doesn’t it say planets? The ancient Hebrews may not have had a word for planet, but we certainly do now and gee, don’t you think that an all powerful omniscient god might have been a little clearer about what he/she/it actually meant when he/she/it was supposedly innerspring his/her/its inerrant word?

          • QuadGMoto

            If the stars referred to in Genesis 14 are planets, why doesn’t it say planets?

            Sigh…

            Think about it. The Inuit have many different words for snow, because such distinctions matter in their culture. We have one word. So which Inuit word would you translate the word “snow” in, “There is snow on the ground”? Without being able to ask the author, it would not be possible to select the exact right Inuit word because the English language does not provide enough information.

            Prior to the invention of the telescope, planets looked exactly the same as stars to people. They just “acted” differently. So without a known distinction, their language could not convey such a distinction. Therefore, for a translation to use a distinctive word in a situation where the context gives no clues (and other contexts for that word indicate a certain meaning—in this case “stars”) then that would be imposing a meaning that cannot be accurately known on the text. In such a situations, good translations always play it safe.

            Personally, I’m leaning towards the “assigned a purpose” understanding because there are positive Hebrew grammar reasons for it (as opposed to “we don’t know”) and it’s less scientifically awkward.

          • Kyle

            Sigh.

            Think about, why wouldn’t an all powerful deity intent on inspiring his/her/its inerrant word actually make that word as inerrant as possible? The Greeks were able to distinguish between stars and planets so where the Babylonians as were the Egyptians, what was it about the Israelites that made them so much less capable of understanding that there was a difference?

            And if the Hebrew word stars actually referred to planets as you contend that it did, why don’t we change it now in modern translations? The word homosexual didn’t exist prior to the late 19th century yet it’s in every bible now…

            Face it, it says stars because that’s what the desert scribes meant when they decided to write down their nonsensical creation myth…

          • QuadGMoto

            A) Hebrew is at least a millennia older than Greek. Genesis was written somewhere around 1500 BC. Greek was spread by Alexander around 300 BC.

          • Kyle

            Here’s a good idea, have a point! Why didn’t god create a word, were the Israelites to dense to understand the obvious distinction between a planet and a star when so many other ancient civilizations were able to figure it out and if star in this context means planet, why hasn’t it been translated as such? Why does it still say star?

          • QuadGMoto

            Now you’re just stupidly wasting my time.

          • Drew Humberd

            I repeat again: the “homo” in “homosexual” means “same,” not “male.” It is Greek, not Latin. We do not refer to straight women as “homosexual.”

          • QuadGMoto

            That does not affect the point in the slightest because this argument is focused on the meaning of the Greek words which do not use “homo”.

    • Dan

      Lust and abusive relationships are prohibited. Committed relationships based on mutual love and respect are encouraged.

      Galatians 5:14: The entire law is summed up in a single command: “Love your neighbor as yourself.”

      Matthew 7:12: So in everything, do to others what you would have them do to you, for this sums up the Law and the Prophets.

      • ezekiel22

        Dan you quoted correctly. If my neighbor loved me as he loves himself then I would want them to stop me from doing something like driving over a cliff. The same goes for the quote from Matthew. Saying that homosexuality is wrong according to the Bible has nothing to do with hate or bigotry. It has everything to do with the love that God has shown us all.

        • Dan

          The judgement is coupled with condemnation and punishement, based on your interpretation of scriptures that prohibited pagan ritual orgies with shrine prostitutes of both sexes, animals, and objects. Jesus did not discourage committed relationships based on mutual love and respect.

          Would you really want your neighbor to punish you using the force of law, based on his belief your love and marriage is not worthy of equal protections under the law?

  • Pingback: Gay Christian? | Just Say No To Gay Marriage

  • Nos Rob

    What I don’t understand about gay Christians is why they choose – and it is a choice because there’s no evidence they’re born that way – to engage in something as perverted, depraved, unproductive and just plain icky, as Christianity.

  • Dan

    Your belief fully loving another human is a sin may be fine for you, but you should not expect everyone else to give up being fully, authentically human, because you choose that for yourself. Your belief the bible forbids sex in the context of committed relationsips based on mutual love and respect, is based on your chosen interpretation of scripture, which is not accepted by many Christians. It is clear the bible prohibits lust and abusive relationship, but it celebrates relationships based on mutual love and respect.

    • ezekiel22

      You really do not know the Bible well enough to make that statement.

      • Dan

        Many who have devoted their lives to study of the bible have reached that conclusion.

        “God is not a Homophobe: An unbiased look at Homosexuality in the Bible” by Philo Thelos
        “Several books already exist attempting to demonstrate that the Christian Bible does not, in fact, condemn consenting-adult homosexuality. But God is Not a Homophobe has a unique perspective in that the author has a lifetime of experience in pastoring hard-core fundamentalist churches. His former bitter opposition to all forms of homosexuality has given way to a rational, unbiased acceptance that the Bible says hardly anything about homosexuality, and what it does say cannot honestly be used to condemn consenting same-sex unions.”

        “Body Theology”, a book by James B. Nelson, Professor of Christian Ethics, United Theological Seminary, New Brighton, MN. Deals with both heterosexual and homosexual issues. William Coffin, Pastor Emeritus, Riverside Church of New York, says “For all pastors, counselors, and especially Church members who are silent, timid, or negative about sexuality “Body Theology” is a godsend.” According to Nelson, what the Bible forbids is acts of lust, rape, idolatry, violation of religious purity obligations, or pederasty, but no condemnation of homosexuality in relationships of mutual respect and love. “On the other hand, the Bible pointedly celebrates instances of same-sex emotional intimacy, a fact often overlooked by fearful homophobic readers.”

  • Mikeyh0

    Homosexuality is an abomination. God told me that. And I believe Him.

    • Kyle

      Do you often have auditory hallucinations?

    • Kyle

      Not a fan of reality, huh? Tell me does Jebus keep you warm at night when you’re alone thinking about how much you f***ed up the only life you’re ever going to get? Delusions can be helpful to the destitute, but that doesn’t make them any less delusional.

  • Drew Humberd

    Because life is hard for everyone? No one has ever claimed that life as an LGBT person is happier or easier than it is for a straight person. But pretending to be straight doesn’t make it easier for LGBT people.

    • JBenning

      Who’s pretending? Some people don’t have to pretend. That can work both ways but you know that don’t you?

      • Drew Humberd

        What?

        I’m not denying that some people are heterosexual. But gay men and lesbians are not heterosexual. It is a pretense to claim to be heterosexual when one is not. My claim was that attempting to live as a heterosexual when one is not makes it more difficult. I…really don’t think that was complicated. Do I need to use some smaller words?

        • JBenning

          Still on the “born this way” mantra. Nice try but no one listening.

          • Drew Humberd

            Actually, the science shows a fair amount for a genetic origin to homosexuality, although there are no doubt other factors in play as well–human sexuality is a pretty complicated beast! But I’m not really sure why that’s even relevant. Religion is at least as much of a choice as sexual preference and we don’t generally insist in America that someone must [pretend to] be a specific religion in order to receive the same rights as any other American.

          • JBenning

            “Science shows a fair amount of…….” oh, wait, science has never found a gay gene because there isn’t one. It’s a choice. To be or not to be….that is the question.

  • Drew Humberd

    “Homo” in “homosexual” is not Latin, it is Greek. “Homo” means “same,” “hetero” means “different.” See “homogeneous/heterogeneous.”

    • QuadGMoto

      The etymologies on “homo” refer to both Greek and Latin.

      • Drew Humberd

        No. A homosexual is someone who prefers the same sex. It has nothing to do with “male” or “man.”

  • http://tpbuchanan.com tpbuchanan

    Why is the word, “repent” so difficult for some people to accept? Want to be a Christian? Repent–just as we have. There is no other way. It’s not “bigotry,” hate, or meanness, it’s the truth.

  • catarina73

    Thank you so much for this article. Very well written. It expresses so much of my feelings towards not only those in the “gay community”, but also to those who refuse to accept God’s/Jesus’ counsel regarding salvation. He does have boundaries! I have a family member who is part of the “gay community”. I love her dearly and fear for her eternal soul. I just don’t know how to best express in words to any of my family who think that just because they are “letting their conscience be their guide” and they are “being true to themselves” is rebelling against God. It makes it appear, in some instances, that “they know better than the Lord.” They are rejecting God without really realizing the error.

  • silas1898

    More moronic idiocy from Matt Moore. America’s most confused gay man.

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